Hiring and Using Caster Pawns FAQ

#41Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/2/2013 1:26:13 AMmessage detail(edited)
This is one highly inexperienced and clouded individual, Kara.

Now that you've pointed it out, and re-reading that absurd claim of his more carefully, I now realize what he meant, as I previously skimmed past it and thought he meant the Magick Agent only! No experienced player will make such a claim....

Wow!! I cannot wrap my brains around that absurd claim of his! To leave out Holy Focused Bolts Batman! Farout!! >_<
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#42meralonnePosted 10/3/2013 10:39:31 AMmessage detail
Why is this still being discussed in the first place?

Catfish, let me remind you again that this is not a FAQ discussing the merits of a specific Mage weapon. There is no reason to specifically mention Legion's Might in a FAQ that doesn't otherwise discuss staves.

Also, I'm sure you're going to take this remark as "trolling", but I'm going to make it anyway: telling people not to have their pawns utilize Focused Bolt may be the single worst piece of advice I've ever seen given in this forum. I'm sorry, but that skill is more useful than any low-tier spell, especially when Holy-buffed, as it is quicker than those spells to cast and costs zero stamina. You really should consider giving it another look.
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"Sigs are for dorks."-- my wife
#43out51d3rPosted 10/3/2013 9:51:09 PMmessage detail
I've pretty much always ran with a healing mage pawn. Here's a couple things I've learned over the 1.25 years I've played with one:

If you want reliable mage healing, don't equip any enchant skills. When you give the "Help" command to a healing pawn, it'll either cast Anodyne, or try to use one of it's buff spells on a party member that doesn't have that buff active. If the pawn doesn't have any buff spells, it will always immediately start casting Anodyne the moment you give it the help command. Spellscreen is fine as a single cast works on your entire party, and a medicant mage will cast it the moment they spot an enemy before the fight begins anyways, thus they don't try to cast it during a fight.

The Secret Augments Mettle and Recuperation are actually pretty good when you are using a mage for healing. Mettle in particular is good. Remember how on normal difficulty most of the damage you took was healable by Anodyne, but on hard most of it isn't? Mettle makes hard more like normal difficulty in that aspect. When I run with Mettle and my mage pawn, I only carry a couple healing consumables for absolute emergencies, otherwise I don't need them. Recuperation is nice too, but not as necessary.

The Legions Might tip is pretty nice. I wasn't aware of that item. I'll be switching my mage over to it. I don't really care how much damage my mage does. It's the job of my pawn to do the stuff I don't want to do. Healing, killing harpies, etc. I run a Str assassin. Killing bosses is my job, not my pawn's.
#44CatfishWigginsPosted 10/7/2013 8:50:47 PMmessage detail
@Kara, in my post I did admit Focused Bolt did okay damage, but the pawns occasionally last hitting non dragon enemies is less than convincing testimony in my eyes. When the pawns do use it right, it can be impressive, but sometimes they will save one up and then refuse to do other things. Their unenchanted and holy enchanted are both pretty accurate, but their elemental ones seem like they just miss sometimes.

If the pawn does not know Focused Bolt, you can unequip ingle and Levin and they will "more often than not" spam their basic attack ability. It will obviously deal less burst damage but their behavior is much more consistent across multiple encounters. Their behavior will still not be perfect of course; they'll still occasionally run off and pick up a barrel or throw a brick or something mundane.

The difficulty is, of course, you can not simply switch your pawn over to non-focused bolt to test it out for yourself. When I get my pawns set up again I will switch one of them to being public so that users may test out my minimalist build for themselves. Even if you dislike Legion's Might, the minimalist's AI behaves very well on a fully magic geared Sorcerer.

@Meral: Your post does not seem to be trolling in the slightest. My first 200 pawn did use Focused Bolt and I tweaked on her AI quite a bit. Have you tried high level pawns without Focused Bolt? They keep a fairly constant stream of their basic attacks heading towards the enemy and do good damage, but they have the downside of managing buffs on your pawns. If you took the easy way out and just taught your pawn holy boon, their focused bolt would hit every time, but you would not be able to exploit the weaknesses of the BBI enemies. Ingle and Levin do not hit as hard as Focused Bolt, but the pawns love spamming them and they switch between them based on what the enemy is weak against. The two tier ice spell has a huge cast time, but it does good damage to minotaurs and banshees. I guess for even more simplicity, you could completely leave off holy boon and your pawns would deal moderate magic damage to each enemy regardless of elements.

If you could get your pawn to spam Focused Bolt like they do their uncharged basic attack, then pure Focus Bolt sorcerer pawns could give Tenfold ranger pawns a good run for their money. It's been a while since I tested out the community Sorcerer pawns, but if you know of one that is set up like that I'd be happy to try it again.

@outsider: Healing and buffing does not seem to scale well with very high magic numbers, so I have assumed healer/buffer pawns were the developers' intended target for Legion's Might. I guess that would have been a better argument for helping new players than the tank mage.
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Aught ought not have naught for recompense.
#45out51d3rPosted 10/7/2013 9:53:09 PMmessage detail
CatfishWiggins posted...@outsider: Healing and buffing does not seem to scale well with very high magic numbers, so I have assumed healer/buffer pawns were the developers' intended target for Legion's Might. I guess that would have been a better argument for helping new players than the tank mage.


Yeah, as far as I've determined, healing and buffing(and debuffing too) are completely unnaffected by magic attack. It only affects magic damage, to the best of my knowledge.

Did a bit of testing with Legion's Might. My mage can still hurt stuff on BBI pretty reliably while using it. She's not annihilating stuff with it of course, but that's not really her job. She can take out Wraiths and does pretty good damage on Living Armors still, and that's all I really need her to attack on BBI.
#46Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/7/2013 10:10:38 PMmessage detail
out51d3r posted...

Did a bit of testing with Legion's Might. My mage can still hurt stuff on BBI pretty reliably while using it. She's not annihilating stuff with it of course, but that's not really her job. She can take out Wraiths and does pretty good damage on Living Armors still, and that's all I really need her to attack on BBI.

Please get your facts straight, it does very little damage against Living Armors, not 'pretty good damage', and this is tested on a min/max Mage.
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#47Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/7/2013 11:55:43 PMmessage detail(edited)
Oh, so now HFB is impressive? Back tracking much? You obviously did a lot of futile studying to try and counter Kara's post which laughed at your outrages claims to leave out HFB.

You're making it sound like you've stumbled on something truly remarkable with Legion's Might when all of what you've listed is doable with a Dominion Claw, and with the proper setup.

CatfishWiggins posted...
Have you tried high level pawns without Focused Bolt? They keep a fairly constant stream of their basic attacks heading towards the enemy and do good damage

This is a nonsense claim. Pure undiluted nonsense. Those spit balls do very little damage, and they actually take a while to complete the animation of shooting three at a time, let alone to have them do it constantly.

Furthermore, to have a Mage Pawn do that consecutively and consistently would require one to unequip Ingle, Levin and other higher spells for them to do this turn after turn. Since a Caster Pawn AI will have them cycle through their spell list otherwise. Therefore you claim is FALSE, and you're obviously lying through your teeth to pitch us LM for more than its worth. I have tried this experiment extensively, long ago, but with a powerful weapon such as the Volant White and LM, on vanilla DD.

If you took the easy way out and just taught your pawn holy boon, their focused bolt would hit every time, but you would not be able to exploit the weaknesses of the BBI enemies. Ingle and Levin do not hit as hard as Focused Bolt, but the pawns love spamming them and they switch between them based on what the enemy is weak against.

You have obviously limited yourself to such a narrow playing field that you've failed to see the potential of what a properly equipped Mage with a Dominion Claw can do, and that it has a far better chance of trumping your deluded LM popsicle theory. Seriously, listen to yourself, all this long winded talk, and all it does is the exact same thing that a Mage with a Dominion Claw setup can do, and with those same spells, but LM does far less damage! Farout!

Caster Pawn's AI routine is NOT predicated on the weapon they equip! LM bringing them back to life is part of the game AI, not Pawn AI.

Stop with your ramblings already! Anyone with half a wit can see that you're struggling to explain like a politician. Your claims are unfounded since you've clearly limited yourself to one playing field.

I guess that would have been a better argument for helping new players than the tank mage.

Really? I've been saying that from the beginning, but no, you had to come off high and mighty, and all knowing.

Playing the sympathy card... typical
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#48out51d3rPosted 10/7/2013 11:09:20 PMmessage detail
Ghost_of_Kirin posted...
out51d3r posted...

Did a bit of testing with Legion's Might. My mage can still hurt stuff on BBI pretty reliably while using it. She's not annihilating stuff with it of course, but that's not really her job. She can take out Wraiths and does pretty good damage on Living Armors still, and that's all I really need her to attack on BBI.

Please get your facts straight, it does very little damage against Living Armors, not 'pretty good damage', and this is tested on a min/max Mage.


I just ran a test to be sure. My mage is equipped with Legion's Might, and has 1582 magic attack with it equipped. Offensive spells are Ingle and Levin, with a skill ring boosting them both to level 3.

Methodology:
Test was done on Hard Mode.
Released all pawns except my Mage.
Broke a Living Armor's armor with basic dagger attacks.
Let my mage attack the living armor for a while.

What I noticed: Sometimes my Mage took off 1/2-2/3rds of a bar with a single spell, other times did very low damage.

A little experimentation told me why. When the Living Armor had it's shield raised, it was taking significantly less damage. When it was attacking, casting a spell, and I think even in a neutral state, it took at least half a bar from each spell.

So, there you go. As long as I wasn't wasting my time attacking it(and thus keeping it's shield block up), my mage was hurting it pretty badly. It's not my facts that were in error, it's your own methodology.
#49Ghost_of_KirinPosted 10/7/2013 11:23:56 PMmessage detail
Outsider: Nope, my methodology wasn't in error, so don't go assuming I'm new to this game. That is still the definition of very little damage compared to a Dominion Claw, whichever way you want to look at it.

Also, you have to remember that Catfish claims to not use boosters.
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Justin Bailey
| Gamertag: Ghost of Kirin | MK Ur-Dragon run: http://youtu.be/jtkfQCqYzgM |
#50out51d3rPosted 10/7/2013 11:54:08 PMmessage detail
Ghost_of_Kirin posted...
Also, you have to remember that Catfish claims to not use boosters.


If you are suggesting I was using periapts/consumables, you are again in error. I was using Attunement and Acuity, no other magic augs, and I don't think I have any +magic on my mage's gear(if I do, it's a small enough amount to be irrelevant).

The goal isn't to compare to Dominion Claw. The goal is to do enough damage to defeat a Living Armor in a reasonable time span. 2/3rds of a bar from a relatively quick spell accomplishes that.