Why did Atlus call rename it Wayfarer of Time?

#1LilispherePosted 9/14/2012 9:26:04 AM
There is no time travel or anything like that aside from Akyel, Uriel and Vester.

Just doesn't make sense....
#2NogoodnamesnowPosted 9/14/2012 9:36:01 AM
The original PS2 version of GL IV was called Wayfarer of Time also. The PSP version wasn't, but GL IV was never released in English anyway so they just went with the original title.
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#3ForbsterPosted 9/14/2012 10:02:04 AM(edited)
Perhaps because the premise of the story revolves around those three? They're the main actors and all play major roles. The initial cast such as Dixon, Regina and the brigade have but a small impact on the war itself where as the presence of those three is immense compared to even MC.

Of course, the entire story is a paradox to begin with and we don't know what happened in World 1 back in Crevan's time when he never existed. Crevan probably wouldn't have been made because Ruin Children were the Ancient Civilizations's solution to Angels. All we know is that they made a mistake and researched summons. We also don't know enough about time travel theory in this game such as what would happen if Vester loses and someone returns to THAT future. Would it be altered or is the time-plane considered infinitely branching and that future is simply one of the possible outcomes.

Thinking about this topic also leaves me some questions. For example, Crevan and Frayne were made by the Ancient Civilization and the Angels travelled all the way back to that time and started murdering summoners. From a human perspective, they've pretty much existed for eternity. We don't know when Vester is brought into the story but my impression is that he travelled to a more contemporary period. Perhaps right before the war started? It doesn't make sense for Vester to keep quiet while the Angels continously hamper his efforts.

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#4MoliviousPosted 9/14/2012 10:09:18 AM
additional questions i had in mind, what made the other ruin children so different that they had no essence? they cannot be failures, nor could they be a success. but i wonder... is there something like 2% chance of a ruin child being born with essence? if i missed something in the story, tell me. xD
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#5Just JoePosted 9/14/2012 11:23:21 AM(edited)
Would it be altered or is the time-plane considered infinitely branching and that future is simply one of the possible outcomes.

Well, we know they're trying to prevent that future from happening by sending those familiars into the past, so it can be assumed that that future would no longer exist as that was the goal, but as it's never really touched on at all, there's no real answer that I'm aware of.

It doesn't make sense for Vester to keep quiet while the Angels continously hamper his efforts.

It's very possible that Vester didn't appear until after the angels appeared, because the humans weren't using enough magic for him to manifest until they started researching ways to defend themselves from the familiars. ..sort of a.. self fulfilling prophecy.

I don't think Vester actually went after them at any point, now that I think about it. It would go in hand with the idea that the angels are provoking more powerful development by the humans, but I don't have any direct evidence to back that up.

what made the other ruin children so different that they had no essence?

I don't think it's ever stated, but I would guess that they were probably some of the last to be created (making them potentially further in development, assuming that they were an intentional result and not some fluke)- we do know that those three were created in the same location, raised together before being put to sleep.. but that's really it, I think.

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#6bodrockPosted 9/14/2012 11:24:11 AM
What made Byntir, Frayne and Crevanille different from all the other Ruin Children was that they were infused with angelic essence from the captured Uriel, iirc.
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#7YomielPosted 9/14/2012 11:34:33 AM
By going back in time and changing things, the Angels didn't alter their own world. Instead, they created a new, separate world. Even in their own world, the main character most likely existed in the past, but just as an ordinary child. We also don't have any reason to believe that Vester himself traveled through time. If anything, this is very unlikely, due to the whole point of going back was largely to fight a weaker version of the darkness.
#8Just JoePosted 9/14/2012 12:07:34 PM
bodrock:
I was under the impression that that was how all of the Ruin Children were made, though... from an attempt to harness that power in a form that wouldn't just get controlled by Akyel, like that Uriel clone was.

Yomiel:
I'm not sure there's really anything to support that, though.
This isn't Chrono Trigger, where we could see that things were only occasionally effected- we just get a line from that old man telling them to go into past and prevent magic from getting out of hand. Unless it's specifically stated, theoretical sciences really have no place in a fantasy setting.

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#9YomielPosted 9/14/2012 12:15:31 PM
I believe it is stated in the projector, if you check out all the different entries. Either that, or during one of the Angel's interactions.
#10ForbsterPosted 9/14/2012 12:22:13 PM
Not adding spoiler tags because they're annoying and every post here is a spoiler now anyways.

The doctor that sent the Angels back in time mentioned that "This world is done for". Since the good doctor already knows about time travelling, I interpret this as: "Even if we travel back in time, this world is done for" since the existence of time travel would normally pose as a solution if there's only 1 timeline which can be alternated through time travel.

However, this poses another problem. If their world cannot be altered, why would they care? Let's assume parallel universes and travelling back in time does nothing but add another branch. Now, since it's impossible to alter the future in this case, all that happens is the creation of a "good" branch where Vester doesn't take over. Perhaps the doctor simply wants to self-satisfaction by knowing that he actually did good for humanity?

Both scenarios are possible either way since the game doesn't give enough hints for both. Another thing which is rather weird is that Vester does not mention time travelling at ALL in the story. Some people just assume that he can because it's the most natural conclusion based on what we know. Joe touched on this in his post:

It's very possible that Vester didn't appear until after the angels appeared, because the humans weren't using enough magic for him to manifest until they started researching ways to defend themselves from the familiars. ..sort of a.. self fulfilling prophecy.

This is indeed possible but if that's the case, this would mean that the current Vester would be Vester2 and he has not actually done any time travelling at all. We actually don't know enough about Vester's relationship with Angels other than the fact that they're a hindrance to him. If we're dealing with Vester2 here, then it's possible that he simply doesn't know how to deal with the Angels himself because he doesn't have enough power. The most important question is still WHEN he comes into the picture. If he existed before Ancient Civilization was destroyed, he could have just read up on their research of Uriel and find a way. This is why I speculate that he didn't come into existence until the modern era.

In both cases, he has to come after the Angels whether it's due to chasing them through time or manifesting through the usage of summons. I recall the flashback scene where Vester destroy's Maggie's village to obtain a document but I don't actually remember the details on the documents. Was it Uriel's testimony on the dangers of summoning? There isn't any solid evidence supporting or denying the Vester Time Travel theory either way.
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