Let's face it guys.

#311shadetail1Posted 4/21/2012 10:41:47 AM
["The videos speak for themselves. In terms of what they were showing off in the tech demo, it was quite close to what was in the final games."]

OK, no. This is utter crap. The early Gamecube Zelda demo looks horrible compared to Twilight Princess. In fact, it looks only marginally better than Majora's Mask, what with its low polygon count and exaggerated character movement. If you really are that bad at recognizing difference in graphical quality, then you need a good Optometrist.
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Religion is like spaghetti: either stiff and fragile, or wet and limp.
#32thundercat2600Posted 4/21/2012 10:44:01 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#33darkjedilinkPosted 4/21/2012 10:47:37 AM
ArabrockermanX posted...
Many of those games were in their alpha stage at best and tech demos really don't show off a console(look at early ps3/360 tech demos). I'm still not sure Nintendo even wanted to show the U off last E3.

They said as much at E3. The only reason the DID was damage control over the rumors.
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Resistance is TASTY!
#34TottentanzPosted 4/21/2012 10:50:55 AM
DaLagga posted...

Most of the leaked information does suggest that the Wii U will be on par with the x360/PS3 (again, maybe twice as powerful at best, depending on how you measure processing power). And if the Wii U were truly far more powerful, then this would have been reflected in the early tech demos. But that wasn't the case.

Consider this. Did the N64 Zelda tech demo look similar to SNES games? Did the Spaceworld demo look like N64 games? No, they did not. They showed a clear generational leap. But we didn't see anything of the sort with the Zelda and Garden demos. What we saw was tech that the PS3/x360 could easily handle, and while improvements will no doubt be made over the years, I think people are dreaming if they think the Wii U is a true next-gen console when it comes to processing power.


Most?

I suppose if you count some bad articles and random anonymous sources including debunked rumors you might be right on the comment about most, but that still does not mean they are correct.

As for what you want me to consider, you are glossing over what I said again. The E3 presentations last year were check the box moments when it was the visual stuff and a few games to demonstrate the possibilities of the new controller. While in your example of the N64 demo, they were trying to showcase the power of the console.

We wont start to see them showcasing the console until this year's E3 which kind of makes your comparison moot.

If E3 of 2011 was showcasing the console, you would be correct, and I would bow to your logic; however, the entire show was to check a couple of boxes and to show off the controller that set the internet on fire and not to show off the actual console which is probably why they gave out those gimped kits.


Anyway, reflecting again on your "most" comment, I cant help but think you are building a house of cards with those sources that you would need to qualify that statement while on the other side, we have named sources from people actually working with the kit that have done their best not to violate NDA while also commenting on the power of the Wii U.
#35ArabrockermanXPosted 4/21/2012 11:30:55 AM
Tottentanz posted...
DaLagga posted...

Most of the leaked information does suggest that the Wii U will be on par with the x360/PS3 (again, maybe twice as powerful at best, depending on how you measure processing power). And if the Wii U were truly far more powerful, then this would have been reflected in the early tech demos. But that wasn't the case.

Consider this. Did the N64 Zelda tech demo look similar to SNES games? Did the Spaceworld demo look like N64 games? No, they did not. They showed a clear generational leap. But we didn't see anything of the sort with the Zelda and Garden demos. What we saw was tech that the PS3/x360 could easily handle, and while improvements will no doubt be made over the years, I think people are dreaming if they think the Wii U is a true next-gen console when it comes to processing power.


Most?

I suppose if you count some bad articles and random anonymous sources including debunked rumors you might be right on the comment about most, but that still does not mean they are correct.





Even then its not "most" by a long shot.... Wii U won't out class current console like say the ps4/720 but it won't be on par. Tech has advanced quite a bit since then(something DaLagga is unaware of) but even then the noticeable difference this generation won't be as big as last generation. Also comparing the SNES to N64 is a horrible comparison only a troll or an idiot would make that comparison and think it fits the situation.
#36darkjedilinkPosted 4/21/2012 11:43:58 AM
DaLagga, if you REALLY believe that, explain why the FF7 PS3 demo looked so horrible.
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Resistance is TASTY!
#37DaLaggaPosted 4/21/2012 1:48:58 PM(edited)
Tottentanz posted...
Most?

I suppose if you count some bad articles and random anonymous sources including debunked rumors you might be right on the comment about most, but that still does not mean they are correct.

As for what you want me to consider, you are glossing over what I said again. The E3 presentations last year were check the box moments when it was the visual stuff and a few games to demonstrate the possibilities of the new controller. While in your example of the N64 demo, they were trying to showcase the power of the console.

We wont start to see them showcasing the console until this year's E3 which kind of makes your comparison moot.

If E3 of 2011 was showcasing the console, you would be correct, and I would bow to your logic; however, the entire show was to check a couple of boxes and to show off the controller that set the internet on fire and not to show off the actual console which is probably why they gave out those gimped kits.


Anyway, reflecting again on your "most" comment, I cant help but think you are building a house of cards with those sources that you would need to qualify that statement while on the other side, we have named sources from people actually working with the kit that have done their best not to violate NDA while also commenting on the power of the Wii U.


Indeed, most. Generic and vague PR statements carry no weight at all. Not that anonymous sources are always reliable. But they certainly carry a lot more weight than what is said infront of a camera to maintain a good relationship with Nintendo. And I've got to wonder by what criteria you judge something to be discredited. Because a bunch of fanboys on a forum choosing to not believe something hardly qualifies as discredited.

And as far as the tech demos go, you're right that their main goal was to show off the controller. But why was that exactly? If the Wii U were truly a generational leap ahead, why not show it off a bit? It wouldn't take too long to prepare a tech demo that would destroy the PS3/x360. Or at the very least they could have run the current tech demos at 1080p and/or 60fps, but they didn't. The Garden demo even had serious framerate issues later on. Where's the next gen processing power?

darkjedilink posted...
DaLagga, if you REALLY believe that, explain why the FF7 PS3 demo looked so horrible.

Horrible compared to what? Compared to what a modern PC can produce? Yeah, it looks pretty bad. But compared to modern PS3 games? It's not too far behind.
#38TottentanzPosted 4/21/2012 4:21:00 PM(edited)
DaLagga posted...

Indeed, most. Generic and vague PR statements carry no weight at all. Not that anonymous sources are always reliable. But they certainly carry a lot more weight than what is said infront of a camera to maintain a good relationship with Nintendo. And I've got to wonder by what criteria you judge something to be discredited. Because a bunch of fanboys on a forum choosing to not believe something hardly qualifies as discredited.

And as far as the tech demos go, you're right that their main goal was to show off the controller. But why was that exactly? If the Wii U were truly a generational leap ahead, why not show it off a bit? It wouldn't take too long to prepare a tech demo that would destroy the PS3/x360. Or at the very least they could have run the current tech demos at 1080p and/or 60fps, but they didn't. The Garden demo even had serious framerate issues later on. Where's the next gen processing power?


PR statements? lol really? They dont have to say anything at all. They are not obligated to word things around NDA and say things like it is more powerful, has more resources, can do things the other systems cant when they already explained they wont be utilizing some of it because they have to keep all the games relatively the same.

It is kind of weird that you listen to these interviews or read them and instantly discredit them as PR when they do not have to say anything and could just close down the interview whenever asked about the Wii U version. They genuinely want to share what they have been doing with it which can be seen in their face and their smile when they start talking about the stuff then the sudden frown when they say they cant share more until Nintendo lifts NDA.

As for debunked rumors, those are not debunked because I said so, they are debunked because they are straight up wrong such as the 768MB eDRAM rumor, gauging performance of a feed by a feed, looking at a picture of the console to gauge power without bringing up all the facts, etc etc etc. Those were all debunked and torn to bits and not just dismissed because people are fans. As for anonymous sources, they have as much of a reason to tell the truth as they do to lie; we cant prove them wrong and they cant be verified allowing bad people to just say they are developers when they are likely just trolls. And dont think that some people are not petty enough to try to pull that stuff off, recently a guy got banned from GAF for trying to pass off that name change stuff as real when it was a doctored page that apparently he drew up trying to get people to buy that as a story. People are crazy, and actually believing anonymous sources over real people is kind of flimsy when you understand that.


Oh speaking of glossing over facts, I love your last paragraph and how little you seem to have grasped from last year's E3. Did you think they were running it on completed kits or something? The Wii U was barely even started at E3 of last year, and you are expecting them to do what exactly? As B3D revealed, the GPU was not even taped out when they wrote that article in July, so how exactly was Nintendo supposed to deliver anything to reflect what the final product would be capable of doing when they barely knew how far they were going to push it? The dev kit has gone through at least 4 evolutions including a huge jump from the gimped dev kits that developers had before E3 and the 2nd gen kits, so how exactly were they to produce something to give off that generational leap.


Going by your last comment, I am starting to think you are an uniformed troll trying to tell me stuff as if they are facts when you yourself hardly actually know the facts. It actually sounds like you have made up your mind without even seeing everything first, so there is no point to this and further responses will be a bit more to the point.
#39DaLaggaPosted 4/21/2012 5:43:49 PM
Tottentanz posted...
PR statements? lol really? They dont have to say anything at all. They are not obligated to word things around NDA and say things like it is more powerful, has more resources, can do things the other systems cant when they already explained they wont be utilizing some of it because they have to keep all the games relatively the same.

You don't do an interview to discuss the Wii U version of a game and not mention it. Again, they're PR statements, nothing more. Most of the insider sources confirm that it is most certainly not a generational leap. Reports range from it being weaker than the x360/PS3 to around 100% more powerful, which is most certainly not a generational leap.

As for debunked rumors, those are not debunked because I said so, they are debunked because they are straight up wrong such as the 768MB eDRAM rumor, gauging performance of a feed by a feed, looking at a picture of the console to gauge power without bringing up all the facts, etc etc etc. Those were all debunked and torn to bits and not just dismissed because people are fans.

I'm not talking about the 768mb of RAM rumor. Although, I think some fanboys are kidding themselves if they think they debunked the DF article. You know...one of the most reliable sources on the web for technical information? Rather than debunking them all people did was question how they obtained their results. And while that's a legit question, it most certainly does not call their conclusions into question.

Oh speaking of glossing over facts, I love your last paragraph and how little you seem to have grasped from last year's E3. Did you think they were running it on completed kits or something? The Wii U was barely even started at E3 of last year, and you are expecting them to do what exactly? As B3D revealed, the GPU was not even taped out when they wrote that article in July, so how exactly was Nintendo supposed to deliver anything to reflect what the final product would be capable of doing when they barely knew how far they were going to push it? The dev kit has gone through at least 4 evolutions including a huge jump from the gimped dev kits that developers had before E3 and the 2nd gen kits, so how exactly were they to produce something to give off that generational leap.

None if this even matters. I never said the tech demos had to make a generational leap. But if the Wii U is a true next-gen console, even early dev kits with a rushed demo should have produced graphics far more impressive than what the x360/PS3 are capable of. However, this simply didn't happen. In fact, even though the graphics were rather tame by current gen standards, the Wii U still couldn't hold a steady framerate during parts of the demo. Even an early build with a rushed demo should have resulted in something better than what we got.

Going by your last comment, I am starting to think you are an uniformed troll trying to tell me stuff as if they are facts when you yourself hardly actually know the facts. It actually sounds like you have made up your mind without even seeing everything first, so there is no point to this and further responses will be a bit more to the point.

Says the guy who types an essay in every single topic where someone dares to question the greatness of Nintendo?
#40DrRMPosted 4/21/2012 6:33:26 PM
I can't believe this go so far so I will do an IQ test.

watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAlqC-9HTm4

you say OMG this games look like crap what horrible graphics.

then you read this title ( because you are to lazy to read the entire article except for the line your eye catch and will use later): http://venturebeat.com/2011/06/08/nintendo-admits-e3-wii-u-reel-used-ps3-and-xbox-360-clips/

yes I know you feel stupid about what you think of the video.

now go back to the video and watch the maximum quality of the video.

see that it is 360p.

you feel even more like an *********************************************.







then you realize that my test has just begun
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