Is there no way to make an expensive 2D side scroller game?

#1DesperateMonkeyPosted 8/22/2012 5:35:17 AM
I am just curious, why is it that 2D games are relegated to small budgets? Obviously it does not stop those games from selling at full retail prices (NSMBWii, Rayman Origins) but they confine themselves to low budgets and seem rather unambitious compared to 3D gaming.

This is why I am confused (and people can correct me here because I don't know the actual budget of these games) because to me, it looks like Zelda SS and Super Mario Galaxy cost a crap ton more to make compared to NSMBWii but are expected to sell only a fraction of the copies.

Why is it then that they do so little with NSMBWii? SMG and Zelda were far more ambitious and drove their respective series to new levels. NSMBWii can't even bother to put in online and slap ons a poorly designed 4 player co-op mode with the cop out button when people realize how terrible the collision issue is and so everyone just spams bubbles.

There is very little to say that NSMBWii is any better than older SMB games in fact yet they retail the game at the full price.


It just seems 2D games aren't receiving the big budgets to do something new even though many titles are more than justified to do so. Is only have 2 dimensions limiting innovation or progress or evolution? Play Doom II and then play Gears of War or Halo 3.

The difference is night and day (I really regret downloading Doom II on XBLA... shooters did not age well). The controls are better, the animations are better, the SHOOTING is better, the guns are better, the environments are more varied, the enemies are more varied, the AI isn't a bag full of nails, the physics are better, the graphics are worlds better, the gameplay is more nuanced, the game has more modes, the stories aren't so cheese, the UI is better and I could go on and on.

Hows about NSMBWii compared to SMB3? The graphics are better and there is co-op... everything else isn't exactly better. The progress is miniscule at best. They did not remove the glaring limitations of the technology from generations ago.

So is the genre to blame or are developers just not giving 2D games the proper respect they deserve?

I do recognize that the DD stores have some very unique and innovative 2D experiences but those games are also usually quite short and rely more on gimmicks than the advancements we have seen with 3D genres.
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#2knightimexPosted 8/22/2012 6:43:11 AM(edited)
3d has so much more involved graphically.

In a 2d game what you see is what you see.
In a 3d game you have a 360 degree view.

Also 3d games need to be MUCH more detailed than 2d games.
And I haven't even started on light, shading, physics, etc.

graphics and programming are the 2 most expensive things in gaming.
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#3Sami1000Posted 8/22/2012 7:18:33 AM
2D games can be expensive. Just make 30-40 hours main story with 20 hours extra content. Also if its made as mix of odin sphere and valkyrie profile silmeria then it would have some depth too. Making those beautiful backgrounds cost money too.
#4diedje81Posted 8/22/2012 7:21:06 AM
You ARE desperate, aren't you? Bigger budgets do not make better games, boy. But feel free to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of 2d games, like snes golden axe, nes symphony of the night and contra when it didn't have co-op. How would you waste all this money on a 2d platformer and make it BETTER?
#5Jackie_GleasonPosted 8/22/2012 7:26:21 AM
knightimex posted...
3d has so much more involved graphically.

In a 2d game what you see is what you see.
In a 3d game you have a 360 degree view.

Also 3d games need to be MUCH more detailed than 2d games.
And I haven't even started on light, shading, physics, etc.

graphics and programming are the 2 most expensive things in gaming.


Intriguing, what exactly, do you believe this "graphics" consist of?
#6GeassMasterPosted 8/22/2012 8:04:12 AM(edited)
LBP still does very well while being a decent budget-sized 2D side scroller game(sure other aspects such as creating amazing levels and tons of games from other genres within LBP2 comes into mind but the main focus of the game is 2D side scrolling), puppeteer intends to be a massive side scroller as well.

Just a heads up, NSMB2 had a huge budget(and the upcoming NSMBU). Don't let the low level indie design fool you, they've spent 20+ million on the game.
#7cavebear56Posted 8/22/2012 8:43:43 AM
They don't need to be expensive to be successful.

More money thrown into a game doesn't mean a better quality game or more successful.

What it does mean is it has more potential to be greater than the competition. (i.e. more people putting in content and fixing any bugs/mechanical issues).

The real perk to 2d side scrolling though is you can still make a great game and be successful without having to invest into Hollywood movie style budgets.

I get it, you don't like NSMBWii and I agree that more could have been done with the game (this applies to all games regardless of label). I still found it to be a decent enough game.

It comes down to the people working on the game, the vision they have for the game and the effort they put into it. Money plays a part but not a direct correlation to producing better games.
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#8DTY3Posted 8/22/2012 8:47:32 AM
diedje81 posted...
You ARE desperate, aren't you? Bigger budgets do not make better games, boy. But feel free to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of 2d games, like snes golden axe, nes symphony of the night and contra when it didn't have co-op. How would you waste all this money on a 2d platformer and make it BETTER?


Lol.

Anyway I couldn't care less about a budget, as long as the game feels full and it's a blast to play.
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#9cvmckenziePosted 8/22/2012 10:09:01 AM
Theres no reason to make it expensive. You can throw money at anything and the money wont fight you so the question itself is pretty stupid. You could pay 1 thousand dollars for a nickel and have a really expensive nickel, but most wouldnt for the same reason that most platformers arent, ad you said, expensive.

Gameplaywise, Other m stands as the last great achievment in 2d sidesceolling. Anything more than that and its no longet a 2d sidescroller.
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#10Ryan SiPosted 8/22/2012 11:07:11 AM
Bit.trip Runner is one of my favorite 2D platformers and the graphics are very old-school, with a current gen shine.
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