does anyone see this failing as a gaming console like the wii did?

#31Seca VerinsPosted 11/9/2012 3:41:24 AM(edited)
You're the only one making this personal, bro. I don't care what you think I was trying to say, but if you have a problem with my actual argument, rather than with me, make a counter-argument, don't try to make some sort of broad character judgment. I'm on the internet. You have no way of reading my tone. If I tell you that I was using a rhetorical "you" (which makes more grammatical sense in that post, by the way), you have to take that at face value, because you sure as hell don't have any way of proving otherwise. But I'm very tired of bickering with you because you have nothing constructive to add to this argument; you're just interested in asserting moral superiority to me (by, oddly, claiming that I'm doing the same thing, but whatever).

Seriously, if you don't think "hardcore" and "casual" are artificial distinction created to separate out gaming's "traditional" demographic of pubescent to young-adult males from "the rest", give me something substantial about that. Don't tell me I'm being a big meany. That doesn't make a terribly strong point, even if it is true. I can be a big meany and still be correct, although I feel like I'm not doing the former.
#32sonic777Posted 11/9/2012 3:42:22 AM
Seca Verins posted...
You're the only one making this personal, bro.


DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, someone's mad.

Also, you HAVE no argument. You entered this topic to go on a rant about TC's view. Nothing more, nothing less. And now you're mad because someone called you out on it.

Whatcha gonna do? Save more face? Or just drop this and lick your wounds?
#33Seca VerinsPosted 11/9/2012 3:43:10 AM
Dude. What?
#34sonic777Posted 11/9/2012 3:44:04 AM
Seca Verins posted...
Dude. What?


^^^^
So mad and can't even read letters anymore.
#35YamiYugi4400Posted 11/9/2012 3:46:04 AM
Seca Verins posted...
Only "hardcore gamers", AKA the type of neckbeards who think there's any distinction between "casual" and "core" gaming, actually think the Wii "failed". The Wii is easily the most prolific and successful gaming console since the PS1, maybe even since the NES. It didn't "fail" because you've arbitrarily decided you don't like that women and adults with jobs (two types of human beings you'd previously only heard of in legend) happen to also enjoy some games on that console.

Whew. I'm beginning to suspect that hearing this idiotic rhetoric about the Wii has left me an angry husk of a being.


Using the word neckbeard automatically invalidates your opinion
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#36Seca VerinsPosted 11/9/2012 3:52:11 AM
Guy. I'm not mad. I'm not sure how you got that from me telling you you were getting a bit personal. Was it the "bro" thing? I suspect it was the "bro" thing.

My "dude what" was an expression of general bewilderment because I don't see how you're getting what you're getting from my posts. Like, you're responding to something that vaguely resembles what I'm saying without making any of the same points, and it's really confusing to me because I can't counter-argue you when you're arguing with things I'm not actually saying.

My "rant" isn't about "TC's view". The TC thinks the Wii U might fail because it will follow-suit with the Wii, which a certain (minority) of gamers think was a failure due to being "too casual". Yes, I called him out on this by pointing out that it is indeed a minority of gamers, and a very specific minority, who hold that view. My argument at large was not about the TC's view, though, it was about the larger scale issue of the hardcore/casual dynamic being an artificial barrier placed between certain types of people who play games and other types.
#37Seca VerinsPosted 11/9/2012 4:12:25 AM(edited)
YamiYugi4400 posted...
Seca Verins posted...
Only "hardcore gamers", AKA the type of neckbeards who think there's any distinction between "casual" and "core" gaming, actually think the Wii "failed". The Wii is easily the most prolific and successful gaming console since the PS1, maybe even since the NES. It didn't "fail" because you've arbitrarily decided you don't like that women and adults with jobs (two types of human beings you'd previously only heard of in legend) happen to also enjoy some games on that console.

Whew. I'm beginning to suspect that hearing this idiotic rhetoric about the Wii has left me an angry husk of a being.


Using the word neckbeard automatically invalidates your opinion


Evidently I should in the future use a nicer word to refer to people who separate themselves from other gamers by constructing artificial barriers. I'm curious what that word should be, because "people who separate themselves from anyone unlike themselves by creating an arbitrary distinction based on ill-defined criteria" takes a long time to say, and you'd likely all get a slightly higher amount of mad if I used the more accurate term, which is "bigot".

Hey, I'll edit the post, though, because that word doesn't seem to be striking a nice cord with people here, and I don't mean it to offend anyone in the topic, I mean it to refer specifically to bigoted gamers. I think the word itself might be a bit of a trigger regardless of context, and if so I'm sorry because I didn't really think of that.


Edit: Huh, apparently Gamefaqs has a time limit on editing posts? I'm not sure what the perceived benefit of that is supposed to be, since you can view a message's history either way, but whatever. Gamefaqs having an archaic forum system is nothing new...
#38Seca VerinsPosted 11/9/2012 4:08:43 AM(edited)
It's like 5 AM and I feel like sleeping for three hours is probably a better choice than not sleeping at all (which is weird because I don't feel particularly tired. I should stop taking naps at 2 P.M.), so I'll just leave by making a more concise version of the point I've been trying (perhaps not that successfully?) to make here:

The hardcore/casual distinction is a distinction made out of bigotry. There is literally no criteria to discern the difference between the two other than the types of people who play these games. "Casual games" are considered "casual" because "non-gamers" play them, and "non-gamers" are distinguished as being people who don't fit the conventional view of what a "gamer" should be. That's bigotry, almost by definition.

When somebody makes the argument "The Wii failed because it didn't appeal to hardcore gamers; it only appealed to casuals" what that person is saying is "I consider the Wii to have not been a success because girls and old people played it rather than the type of people I've been taught to think of as gamers." If you're OKAY with making that statement, then cool, that's fine, that's an opinion you're entitled to, but understand that that's precisely what you're saying when you make the euphemistic distinction between "hardcore" and "casual". You're saying that "real gamers" are a particular demographic of people with certain things in common not directly related to "do they play games", and if you're defining it by any details beyond that you're engaging in bigotry, rather you're aware of that fact that you're doing so or not.
#39Enigma149Posted 11/9/2012 4:10:07 AM
Seca Verins posted...
YamiYugi4400 posted...
Seca Verins posted...
Only "hardcore gamers", AKA the type of neckbeards who think there's any distinction between "casual" and "core" gaming, actually think the Wii "failed". The Wii is easily the most prolific and successful gaming console since the PS1, maybe even since the NES. It didn't "fail" because you've arbitrarily decided you don't like that women and adults with jobs (two types of human beings you'd previously only heard of in legend) happen to also enjoy some games on that console.

Whew. I'm beginning to suspect that hearing this idiotic rhetoric about the Wii has left me an angry husk of a being.


Using the word neckbeard automatically invalidates your opinion


Evidently I should in the future use a nicer word to refer to people who separate themselves from other gamers by constructing artificial barriers. I'm curious what that word should be, because "people who separate themselves from anyone unlike themselves by creating an arbitrary distinction based on ill-defined criteria" takes a long time to say, and you'd likely all get a slightly higher amount of mad if I used the more accurate term, which is "bigot".


Yes, you should have opened with "bigot".

Your main argument is correct and you raise some very good points. Most of the people "arguing" against you are doing so in a way that allows them to simply point out minor nuances of your own posts instead of actually making counterarguments of their own. Yet when you leave them an obvious opening, like calling a group of people you don't like "neckbeards", a term which, by the way, doesn't even make any sense...

The chinstrap beard or "neckbeard" is a type of facial hair that extends from the hair line of one side of the face to the...


...it leads to an entire topic of, "well, you did one thing wrong, so your opinion is invalid," regardless of the validity of any of your arguments or other posts. Opening with "bigot", on the other hand, does not necessarily allow you to evade all criticism, but does require your opponents to, at the very least, prove that the people you are describing are not bigots.
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#40gikosPosted 11/9/2012 4:12:50 AM
Seca is making a good point but off with a bad start. still dude you know that sonic is only baiting you right XD
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