"Devs just need more time to make use of the Wii U's hardware"

#31Xeeh_BitzPosted 11/29/2012 9:57:06 AM
kissdadookie posted...
Shift Breaker posted...
The games made haven't been made optimal for the console. Compare graphics among launch game on the PS3/360 and games nowadays. The developers really brought out the best in the console and are really pushing it out now they've got the knack of the consoles. The Wii U is much the same. It may have around the same power as the other consoles released, but it's not the same. The developers need to get used to the console, as it were. There's a reason why most/all(?) the ports aren't of the same quality as the PS3/360 versions.


Problem is, the Wii U from a hardware standpoint, is still essentially a slight bump up from current PS360. So, let us say that they one day finally optimize it, you still end up with hardware running games which are basically a match to the best that came out for the PS360. What happens when devs start ramping up next gen development a year or two after the next Sony and MS boxes come out?

Let's put things into perspective shall we? The next PS is claimed by some devs whom have received the dev kits for the next PS that it's 1) a modified PC 2) the hardware is designed to run games natively at 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second. A lot of you are probably going to yell and scream at me and try to claim one or both of the following:

1) NO THAT CAN'T BE TRUE! THE NEXT GEN IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONLY A NEGLIGIBLE BUMP UP IN POWER!
2) OH NO! ANOTHER SONY FAIL! THIS MACHINE IS GOING TO COST LIKE 600 AGAIN!

Let's put those claims into the boundaries of reality shall we? It's obvious if the machine is targeting 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second for the games, it's NOT a negligible bump up in power. It's actually a big jump in power. Now, the pricing, no, even if the box does do 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second, it can easily cost just $400 or so. Why? Because a budget gaming PC that YOU AND I can build RIGHT NOW with about $500-$600 worth of components including the power supply and casing for the PC, can do the 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second with a lot of graphical fidelity. This is ACHIEVABLE right NOW for a VERY modest RETAIL price of $500-$600. Sony and MS will NOT be paying ANYWHERE near the price it would be for you and I to build such a machine, for Sony and MS, what they pay for all those parts will come in closer to $300ish for those components. So at a price point of $400, they would easily be able to break even or take a very negligible Wii U type loss in which one game purchase per system will bring it back up to profitability.

So, the big question is, yeah, devs can optimize fully for the Wii U one day, but how is the Wii U going to compete technology-wise with the next MS and Sony boxes? It's a HUGE leap in power between the Wii U and the next gen MS and Sony boxes and devs are most definitely going to focus mainly on MS and Sony boxes as well as PC as those three would have parity with each other.



but does it have a tablet controller and Mario, bro?
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#32SkriblZzPosted 11/29/2012 9:57:18 AM
RJtheRedRanger posted...
The quote in my topic title was referring to the argument people use when the Wii U's graphics are being lol'd at. People say the devs just need more time.

More time for what, and how much?


Go play Quake 4 on the 360. Then play Bioshock or something two years or so afterwards.
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#33kissdadookiePosted 11/29/2012 10:03:00 AM(edited)
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
kissdadookie posted...
Shift Breaker posted...
The games made haven't been made optimal for the console. Compare graphics among launch game on the PS3/360 and games nowadays. The developers really brought out the best in the console and are really pushing it out now they've got the knack of the consoles. The Wii U is much the same. It may have around the same power as the other consoles released, but it's not the same. The developers need to get used to the console, as it were. There's a reason why most/all(?) the ports aren't of the same quality as the PS3/360 versions.


Problem is, the Wii U from a hardware standpoint, is still essentially a slight bump up from current PS360. So, let us say that they one day finally optimize it, you still end up with hardware running games which are basically a match to the best that came out for the PS360. What happens when devs start ramping up next gen development a year or two after the next Sony and MS boxes come out?

Let's put things into perspective shall we? The next PS is claimed by some devs whom have received the dev kits for the next PS that it's 1) a modified PC 2) the hardware is designed to run games natively at 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second. A lot of you are probably going to yell and scream at me and try to claim one or both of the following:

1) NO THAT CAN'T BE TRUE! THE NEXT GEN IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONLY A NEGLIGIBLE BUMP UP IN POWER!
2) OH NO! ANOTHER SONY FAIL! THIS MACHINE IS GOING TO COST LIKE 600 AGAIN!

Let's put those claims into the boundaries of reality shall we? It's obvious if the machine is targeting 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second for the games, it's NOT a negligible bump up in power. It's actually a big jump in power. Now, the pricing, no, even if the box does do 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second, it can easily cost just $400 or so. Why? Because a budget gaming PC that YOU AND I can build RIGHT NOW with about $500-$600 worth of components including the power supply and casing for the PC, can do the 1080P in 3D at 60 frames per second with a lot of graphical fidelity. This is ACHIEVABLE right NOW for a VERY modest RETAIL price of $500-$600. Sony and MS will NOT be paying ANYWHERE near the price it would be for you and I to build such a machine, for Sony and MS, what they pay for all those parts will come in closer to $300ish for those components. So at a price point of $400, they would easily be able to break even or take a very negligible Wii U type loss in which one game purchase per system will bring it back up to profitability.

So, the big question is, yeah, devs can optimize fully for the Wii U one day, but how is the Wii U going to compete technology-wise with the next MS and Sony boxes? It's a HUGE leap in power between the Wii U and the next gen MS and Sony boxes and devs are most definitely going to focus mainly on MS and Sony boxes as well as PC as those three would have parity with each other.



but does it have a tablet controller and Mario, bro?


I did not say it will have good games. Lulz. Just talking strictly about the hardware and 3rd party support. It's already clear as day that 3rd party devs are all waiting on the next gen so that they can push out new IPs using new engines aimed at higher end PCs and next gen MS and Sony boxes. From a technology standpoint, the Wii U is not anywhere near being equipped for what is to come from 3rd party a year or two after the next MS and Sony boxes ship.

I mean, look at the next Sony box, it's supposedly going to have a A10. That's a quad core very modern CPU (3.5-4.2 GHz) AND a 7000 series GPU packaged as a SOC. That's a huge leap from what's inside the Wii U.
#34KensyuPosted 11/29/2012 10:09:24 AM
Looks at Wii-U architecture Looks at I3 -I7 sandybridge architecture. Nothing new here. Games have already been optimize for such an architecture way before Ivy Bridge came out. Next excuse please.

BTW Directx 11 is a microsoft proprietary driver so useless argument there -_-.
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#35JonnyBigBossPosted 11/29/2012 10:18:59 AM
OtakuGamera posted...
Why facepalm? The Wii U DOES have more high-quality games than the vita already. And don't you dare say that multiplatform games don't count. If so, then the Vita's only must-have game, persona 4 golden,, doesn't count.

alright lets do a quick comparison

wii U non multiplat games:

ZombiU
Nintendoland

PSvita non multiplat games:

Wipeout 2048
Gravity rush
Uncharted GA
Assassin's creed 3 liberation
Ragnarok Odyssey
Hot Shots Gold: World Invitational

and many more

please stop listening to all the haters and form your own thought using your own research


And there you go. Only listing the exclusives on platforms. What a stupid way of arguing. I own both so don't make it sound like my opinion is coming from other people.
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#36lgiPosted 11/29/2012 10:31:05 AM
Why should it take Nintendo years for them to become familiar with their own hardware? I wonder if the best they can produce is NSMBU. If they're familiar with the hardware, why can't they can help out some developers on how to maximize their own hardware?

Comparing the PS360 lauch titles to now, how many years has passed? You're telling me that Nintendo is going to fully utilize the Wii U's full capabilities in 2016?
#37kissdadookiePosted 11/29/2012 10:33:38 AM
Kensyu posted...
Looks at Wii-U architecture Looks at I3 -I7 sandybridge architecture. Nothing new here. Games have already been optimize for such an architecture way before Ivy Bridge came out. Next excuse please.

BTW Directx 11 is a microsoft proprietary driver so useless argument there -_-.


DirectX 11 is not a useless argument. It's just MS packaging of graphical features but there is the OpenGL equivalent. DX is just what gets thrown around due to it being the standard on gaming PCs.

The Wii U architecture is also not modeled after the i3-i7 nor is it or will it EVER be similar in architecture. System architecture is mainly dictated by CPU type. Power PC is an ENTIRELY different animal than x86. Why are you even commenting since it's so obvious that you have NO CLUE what you are talking about? If anything, the Wii U CPU is familiar due to it being a variant of the 360 CPU. Problem is, the Wii U CPU is optimized for general purpose rather than gaming, and specifically, it's missing a SIMD instructions set along with lacking a vector-math unit. This hurts gaming since those are two very important things that facilitates physics, particle effects (specifically the random paths they take), and skeletal animations (as in, the math required to calculate the dynamic and quite random movement of skeletal forms).

Go back to wherever you came from and never come back spewing nonsense tech information ever again, seriously. People like you who has NO CLUE about technology yet insist on coming on here spewing technical nonsense annoys me to no end.
#38jsb0714Posted 11/29/2012 10:36:54 AM
RJtheRedRanger posted...
It's hard to be optimistic when you're messing with a $400 investment, and the majority of it's own fanbase has serious doubts about how successful it will be.

And all of these doubts are within reason. That's the worst part.


Oh god, please tell me you don't consider all the troll posts to be considered the majority of the fanbase, do you?

Are you new to gaming? Considering the quote in your topic, I'd bet so.
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#39OtakuGameraPosted 11/29/2012 10:41:02 AM
And there you go. Only listing the exclusives on platforms. What a stupid way of arguing. I own both so don't make it sound like my opinion is coming from other people.

oh i thought you wanted exclusives only, well no matter since vita still has more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_Vita_games

http://bgr.com/2012/09/26/nintendo-wii-u-launch-games-list/
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#40Emerald_MeliosPosted 11/29/2012 11:06:46 AM(edited)
RJtheRedRanger posted...
It's hard to be optimistic when you're messing with a $400 investment, and the majority of it's own fanbase has serious doubts about how successful it will be.

And all of these doubts are within reason. That's the worst part.


Yes, it was shown that PS3/Xbox 360 were of inferior quality to the PS2, Wii, Gamecube, and handhelds. This is a major hurdle for the Wii U, as it needs to be as good as PS2 or thew Wii and its predecessors, something that the other HD consoles failed miserably to do.