Nintendo confirms German law to blame for Europe-wide Wii U eShop 18+ content re

#121meiyukiPosted 12/10/2012 2:29:17 PM
Haku posted...

Well other guy said it won't work anyway, but assuming it did, they are entitled to think that and not do it, but expect to be criticised for it.

End of the day the average consumer doesn't care why, all they will care for is everyone else (XBL/PSN/Steam) is able to offer all content and all times and Nintendo are not. This was supposed to be the console that shook off the kiddy image, brought back the quality 3rd party support, and now there are restriction on adult content that the competing consoles do not have.


You sound like the sony propaganda office. Nintendo doesn't care about that image because it's completely falsified and not based on anything. Every company from sega all the way back in the 80's has said that. If you believe that then it means you believe the marketing from the competition.

Frankly it's people with limited mental capacity that believe the kiddy propaganda from the competition.

Nintendo isn't going to exclude the majority of their customs just to get around a law that affects a minority of customers. If people want someone to be mad at blame your damn nanny state leaders everyone keeps electing, cause they all do this same crap just targeting different things.
#122Red_hot_smasherPosted 12/12/2012 5:47:00 AM
meiyuki posted...
Haku posted...

Well other guy said it won't work anyway, but assuming it did, they are entitled to think that and not do it, but expect to be criticised for it.

End of the day the average consumer doesn't care why, all they will care for is everyone else (XBL/PSN/Steam) is able to offer all content and all times and Nintendo are not. This was supposed to be the console that shook off the kiddy image, brought back the quality 3rd party support, and now there are restriction on adult content that the competing consoles do not have.


You sound like the sony propaganda office. Nintendo doesn't care about that image because it's completely falsified and not based on anything. Every company from sega all the way back in the 80's has said that. If you believe that then it means you believe the marketing from the competition.

Frankly it's people with limited mental capacity that believe the kiddy propaganda from the competition.

Nintendo isn't going to exclude the majority of their customs just to get around a law that affects a minority of customers. If people want someone to be mad at blame your damn nanny state leaders everyone keeps electing, cause they all do this same crap just targeting different things.


The problem with "only an idiot would believe that crap" is that Joe Schmo is that idiot. That's why this is going to bite Nintendo in the *** in 5 years when Joe Schmo is probably downloading his games digitally due to a) convenience and b) the fact he has a Gigabit Internet connection, which won't be uncommon in 5 years (or at least I don't think so).

Also, the <18 customer base is quite small in price as it consists largely of a) kids young enough their parents buy most of their games for them and b) kids old and "mature" enough to want only "cool" "mature" "hardcore" and therefore mostly 18 rated games, meaning they have to get someone 18+ to buy the games for them anyway.

How many kids actually go out and buy prepaid cards as opposed to having mom or dad enter their credit card details anyway?
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#123squatch22(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 11:36:09 AM
Remember how some wondered why this didnt apply to 3DS eShop too?

It does now.
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http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/1/9/b/gfs_75574_2_16.jpg
#124AJ2412Posted 12/13/2012 11:47:29 AM
From: squatch22 | #123
Remember how some wondered why this didnt apply to 3DS eShop too?

It does now.

Why did they change it?
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#125The_DjokerPosted 12/13/2012 12:00:24 PM
Nintendo need to GTFO of Germany.

From: Foppe | #009
squatch22 posted...
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
Well, so much for GTA V ever coming to the Wii U along with multiple other 18+ Games


Call of Duty says hello

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/2/9/7/683297_287377_front.jpg


Don't forget ZombiU.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii-u/673013-zombiu/images/box-277846
Mass Effect 3
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii-u/673037-mass-effect-3-special-edition/images/box-285754

And probably most games that got a M-rate in USA.


How much did those games sell

Boom. I owned you once again squatch. 13-0 now is it?
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#126SorsShinjoPosted 12/13/2012 1:09:46 PM(edited)
Haku posted...
darkjedilink posted...
SSJ Undertaker posted...
darkjedilink posted...
You won't buy the Wii U because Nintendo obeys the law? That's kind of stupid, imo...


German law is not European law. The entire issue is that Nintendo are citing "German law" as an excuse to block 18+ games across all of Europe.


Because they're IN GERMANY. They can't just ignore the law because it would affect a wider market.


There are other ways to implement it though, that would not effect the rest of Europe. E-shop cards being 18+ would satisfy the law of blocking sales to minors (or so the Germans say), as you would need to be 18 to buy them and credit card purchases can be assumed you are 18.

Might be German law, but Nintendo made the choice to implement it in a way that effects all of Europe and get criticised for it and rightly so. They also must have known this would be an issue, yet still set up the e-shop in Europe. Move the servers, if that isn't enough, make another division, set up elsewhere and give them control of online operations.

If Nintendo have decided that this is best, as the others are too costly, then so be it, but they don't get to escape criticisim by just claiming German law, too bad for rest of Europe, while there are alternatives.


I'm from germany and this is absolutely correct, so let me give some more information:

Selling 18+ rated games in germany by internet shops is NOT legal as long as there is no age verification. JuSchG 1 (4)

this law applies regardless of the location of the shop HQ, the servers, or whatever.
And yes this applies to
-Steam: only cut versions available for german consumers
-PSN: only creditcard or prepaidcard payment (prepaid card may not be sold to children)
-Live: see PSN
-and also ALL other online shops

And no this does not apply to shops that are located in germany but don't sell to german consumers. TMG 3 (3-1)

though small shops often go by unrecognized (no suitor = no lawsuit) and retail is practically non enforced so everyone can buy PSN/Live cards without much problems

Alternatively limiting the access-time for age restricted content is applicable:
18+: 23:00-06:00
16: 22:00-06:00.
JMStV 5 (4)


this is usually only used for television, but can be applied to things like online shops.

tl;dr:Nintendo could have done it like PSN, but not only chose the time-restriction route delibaretly but also chose to force this rule on all of europe without any law-regarded reason
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If you feel scammed by a company but don't want to stop playing their games: Buy them used, it's the smart gamer's boycott method
#127squatch22(Topic Creator)Posted 12/13/2012 1:00:25 PM
The_Djoker posted...
Nintendo need to GTFO of Germany.

From: Foppe | #009
squatch22 posted...
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
Well, so much for GTA V ever coming to the Wii U along with multiple other 18+ Games


Call of Duty says hello

http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/2/9/7/683297_287377_front.jpg


Don't forget ZombiU.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii-u/673013-zombiu/images/box-277846
Mass Effect 3
http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii-u/673037-mass-effect-3-special-edition/images/box-285754

And probably most games that got a M-rate in USA.


How much did those games sell

Boom. I owned you once again squatch. 13-0 now is it?


Dont know. They havnt told us how many downloads have sold yet.

Boom. Keep trying.
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LineTroll posted: Mario Galaxy is just like a Sonic game.
http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/1/9/b/gfs_75574_2_16.jpg
#128Baha05Posted 12/13/2012 1:03:05 PM
The_Djoker posted...
How much did those games sell

Boom. I owned you once again squatch. 13-0 now is it?


What does it really matter how much the games have sold? Nintendo has had Mature rated games on their systems in the past, it's not going to change anytime soon.
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#129HakuPosted 12/13/2012 5:36:14 PM
SorsShinjo posted...
Haku posted...
darkjedilink posted...
SSJ Undertaker posted...
darkjedilink posted...
You won't buy the Wii U because Nintendo obeys the law? That's kind of stupid, imo...


German law is not European law. The entire issue is that Nintendo are citing "German law" as an excuse to block 18+ games across all of Europe.


Because they're IN GERMANY. They can't just ignore the law because it would affect a wider market.


There are other ways to implement it though, that would not effect the rest of Europe. E-shop cards being 18+ would satisfy the law of blocking sales to minors (or so the Germans say), as you would need to be 18 to buy them and credit card purchases can be assumed you are 18.

Might be German law, but Nintendo made the choice to implement it in a way that effects all of Europe and get criticised for it and rightly so. They also must have known this would be an issue, yet still set up the e-shop in Europe. Move the servers, if that isn't enough, make another division, set up elsewhere and give them control of online operations.

If Nintendo have decided that this is best, as the others are too costly, then so be it, but they don't get to escape criticisim by just claiming German law, too bad for rest of Europe, while there are alternatives.


I'm from germany and this is absolutely correct, so let me give some more information:

Selling 18+ rated games in germany by internet shops is NOT legal as long as there is no age verification. JuSchG 1 (4)

this law applies regardless of the location of the shop HQ, the servers, or whatever.
And yes this applies to
-Steam: only cut versions available for german consumers
-PSN: only creditcard or prepaidcard payment (prepaid card may not be sold to children)
-Live: see PSN
-and also ALL other online shops

And no this does not apply to shops that are located in germany but don't sell to german consumers. TMG 3 (3-1)

though small shops often go by unrecognized (no suitor = no lawsuit) and retail is practically non enforced so everyone can buy PSN/Live cards without much problems

Alternatively limiting the access-time for age restricted content is applicable:
18+: 23:00-06:00
16: 22:00-06:00.
JMStV 5 (4)


this is usually only used for television, but can be applied to things like online shops.

tl;dr:Nintendo could have done it like PSN, but not only chose the time-restriction route delibaretly but also chose to force this rule on all of europe without any law-regarded reason


So this rule here

Selling 18+ rated games in germany by internet shops is NOT legal as long as there is no age verification. JuSchG 1 (4)

You say it does not apply to shops not selling to Germans

"no this does not apply to shops that are located in germany but don't sell to german consumers. TMG 3 (3-1)"

So is that not selling at all? or would an IP block satisfy it? (Mature content blocked from Germans, but no one else)

If not, but they set up a separate E-shop, still hosted in Germany, but only accessible to non-Germans, then that would be fine?

So really, they wouldn't even have to move anything. Just make a separate shop for the rest of Europe and not give Germans access to it, and they're fine, even though it's in Germany.
#130SorsShinjoPosted 12/14/2012 1:01:49 AM
Haku posted...

So this rule here

Selling 18+ rated games in germany by internet shops is NOT legal as long as there is no age verification. JuSchG 1 (4)

You say it does not apply to shops not selling to Germans

"no this does not apply to shops that are located in germany but don't sell to german consumers. TMG 3 (3-1)"

So is that not selling at all? or would an IP block satisfy it? (Mature content blocked from Germans, but no one else)

If not, but they set up a separate E-shop, still hosted in Germany, but only accessible to non-Germans, then that would be fine?

So really, they wouldn't even have to move anything. Just make a separate shop for the rest of Europe and not give Germans access to it, and they're fine, even though it's in Germany.


It needs some more legal mumbo jumbo, but that can mainly be done through the TOS.

TMG 3 (3-1) says that in Europe you can choose which countries law you want to follow if seller and buyer are from different countries (corresponding laws should be found in all europeans countries since it's an european policy). Just some small extra rules can't "unchosen" but those are laws to clarify the process of selling: who is selling, who is buying, no-broken products, etc.
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If you feel scammed by a company but don't want to stop playing their games: Buy them used, it's the smart gamer's boycott method