How many titles actually sell a million plus units in a given year?

#111Baha05Posted 12/13/2012 11:32:13 PM
Reznik00 posted...
Making poor choices because they have no budget....they have no budget because of used game sales.
I work in a buyer/seller environment and when a vendor comes by wanting a sell, I point to his overstocked product on my shelf and say "sorry, everyone is getting it cheaper this way so I have no reason to purchase anymore", that makes for the quality of his product to go down eventually.

Those games being sold back is not the issue. I had "achievement whore" friends who bought a game, sold it back in a week, and bought another used game frequently. None of this was a problem until achievements came around interestingly enough, but that's the truth. Good or bad, ALL GAMES get traded in long before they should. This is why the new price comes down so much quicker now too.


They don't have a budget because chances are their previous game had to have bombed so that they couldn't even break even. Hell it's not even achievement hunters fault, at this point I'm pretty sure most of them know that they can rent games. The issue for devs is the fact that they have been making poor choices and putting them in the danger zone.
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#112Phantom_NookPosted 12/13/2012 11:33:14 PM
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
Gamestop didn't really start until 1994..


Because nobody sold games before Gamestop came into existence.
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#113Reznik00Posted 12/13/2012 11:33:58 PM
FayeLady posted...
Reznik00 posted...
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Those 25 "Lost" sales were bought at a discount from gamestop. The Publisher was paid for their 50 copies. If they make a game that is poor enough to have every other copy returned then maybe the deserver to go under?

All 25 of those games thought that game simply wasn't worth it. Blame the publisher for that, but don't blame gamestop and certainly dont blame the 25 people who bought it used, they are just being more decerning with there spending.


I understand that if the game was bad, it was bad, I'm not arguing that, but the point is that's 25 additional units that GS would've had to purchase to restock, but didn't. Are used games inherently bad? Not really when most people treat them as a rental anyway, but when GS's sales are 1/4 new and 3/4 used that doesn't strike you as lost sales for the devs?
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#114Baha05Posted 12/13/2012 11:35:51 PM
Reznik00 posted...
Not really when most people treat them as a rental anyway, but when GS's sales are 1/4 new and 3/4 used that doesn't strike you as lost sales for the devs?


No because Gamestop isn't the only place you can buy games from, you have several other retails that sell games. So there is no excuses for devs not to make money unless their products are really bad thus no one is buying it.
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"Gamestop will not be around in 10 years because physical games will no longer exist, it'll all be digital" Xeeh_Bitz
#115Reznik00Posted 12/13/2012 11:38:37 PM
Baha05 posted...
Reznik00 posted...
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They don't have a budget because chances are their previous game had to have bombed so that they couldn't even break even. Hell it's not even achievement hunters fault, at this point I'm pretty sure most of them know that they can rent games. The issue for devs is the fact that they have been making poor choices and putting them in the danger zone.


There are not many places that don't charge you by the day to rent....So I could pay $55 at GS, play for 6 days, the get said $55 back instead of losing $12 for the same time at redbox - the achievement hunter is going to GS.
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#116FayeLadyPosted 12/13/2012 11:40:20 PM
Reznik00 posted...
Baha05 posted...
Reznik00 posted...
This is baffling...

If GS gets 50 new copies and all 50 are sold, the dev gets that money.

If 25 of those 50 come back and get sold as used, that's 25 "new" game sales the dev lost.

How is that hard to understand? This is bigger than some midwest flea market, this is GS. Those 25 that come back are 25 that GS doesn't order again. That's where the devs get the money, from the 3rd party sellers. If everyone is going to GS to get a used copy two days after launch ( and they do), then stock is sitting on Walmart, BestBuy, Target shelves while the used copies are repeatedly getting sold.

The used game market is bigger now than ever before, which were mom and pop stores when I was growing up, and that's why devs have shut down. They had a tighter budget because of that, and their newer games were not up to par...it ALL stems back to GS and the used game market.


The thing is if half of those games get sold back to the store then there is a bigger issue. Again the used market does nothing to developers. If a developer goes out of business there are far bigger issues then some people buying used games. Chances are they are making poor choices in development that is bankrupting them.


Making poor choices because they have no budget....they have no budget because of used game sales.
I work in a buyer/seller environment and when a vendor comes by wanting a sell, I point to his overstocked product on my shelf and say "sorry, everyone is getting it cheaper this way so I have no reason to purchase anymore", that makes for the quality of his product to go down eventually.

Those games being sold back is not the issue. I had "achievement whore" friends who bought a game, sold it back in a week, and bought another used game frequently. None of this was a problem until achievements came around interestingly enough, but that's the truth. Good or bad, ALL GAMES get traded in long before they should. This is why the new price comes down so much quicker now too.


Then its really just as simple as making a game people will want to play longer than a week? Add some replay value to the campaign, add a multiplayer mode, add a loyalty program/stuffed animal so people will want to buy your games new. Keep your customer happy and at best you have a sale for your next game and at worst you have kept the current game off the used shelf.

Keep in mind the only ones who complain about used games sales tend to be the large publisher houses. EA, Activision, and Ubisoft are getting killed by used game sales but companies like Atlus, NISA and XSEED are doing fine? Its because the latter companies go out of their way to do things to keep their customer happy. Does it mean you never see their games on the used shelf? Of course not. But they are a rarity compared to the yearly releases that come out of Ubi/EA/Activision.
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#117shadestreetPosted 12/13/2012 11:40:33 PM
This is baffling...

If GS gets 50 new copies and all 50 are sold, the dev gets that money.

If 25 of those 50 come back and get sold as used, that's 25 "new" game sales the dev lost.

How is that hard to understand?


How many of those sales would have occurred if people knew going into the store, that if they bought the game, they had no chance to recoup any money? Far fewer. See post above about equity.

And if 25 out of 50 are returned within a few days, is that the fault of GS? Or the developer? How terrible is your game if it is not worth keeping longer than a week?

I am also wondering if you think game rentals should be illegal like they are in Japan (right?) - because many times, people just buy games knowing they can get back some money if the reward doesn't outweigh the risk. Strip resell from them and people will just rent game, or opt to not buy the game at all.

This is bigger than some midwest flea market, this is GS. Those 25 that come back are 25 that GS doesn't order again. That's where the devs get the money, from the 3rd party sellers. If everyone is going to GS to get a used copy two days after launch ( and they do), then stock is sitting on Walmart, BestBuy, Target shelves while the used copies are repeatedly getting sold.

You act as if prior to Gamestop the only option were pawnshops and shady fleamarkets - ignoring the fact that prior to Gamestop being the near-monopoly, every moderately sized city by 1990 had at least one of the following: Babbages, Electronics Boutique, FuncoLand, or Software ETC - not to mention that during that entire time Blockbuster also sold used games.

The only difference between then and now is that the signs above the store changed, and they got more organized (a good thing for consumers) - my old Electronics Boutique is in the same spot it was in 1991, with the same layout, only now it says Gamestop.

The used game market is bigger now than ever before, which were mom and pop stores when I was growing up, and that's why devs have shut down. They had a tighter budget because of that, and their newer games were not up to par...it ALL stems back to GS and the used game market.

100% completely false. Devs shut down because they don't have a good business plan, make poor financial decisions, improperly manage their resources and bet on the wrong consoles/trends/genres.

This entire falacy fails to explain how gaming revenue has continued to climb - nearly a 3-fold increase in the past 10 years, despite Gamestop becoming organized in 2000.
#118Reznik00Posted 12/13/2012 11:41:18 PM
Baha05 posted...
Reznik00 posted...
Not really when most people treat them as a rental anyway, but when GS's sales are 1/4 new and 3/4 used that doesn't strike you as lost sales for the devs?


No because Gamestop isn't the only place you can buy games from, you have several other retails that sell games. So there is no excuses for devs not to make money unless their products are really bad thus no one is buying it.


I pointed that out in another post....

New stock is left sitting in the Walmarts, Best Buys, Etc. because GS is selling it cheaper, so why would anyone buy it full price? Are they still selling? yes, but not as frequently as if the price were the same all across the board.
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#119Baha05Posted 12/13/2012 11:42:55 PM
Reznik00 posted...
New stock is left sitting in the Walmarts, Best Buys, Etc. because GS is selling it cheaper, so why would anyone buy it full price? Are they still selling? yes, but not as frequently as if the price were the same all across the board.


Maybe because some people don't have a Gamestop close to them? Maybe there is some incentive to buy at other retails. Hell how many companies can you even name that went put of business because of used games sales?
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#120Reznik00Posted 12/13/2012 11:48:48 PM
FayeLady posted...
Reznik00 posted...
Baha05 posted...
Reznik00 posted...






Then its really just as simple as making a game people will want to play longer than a week? Add some replay value to the campaign, add a multiplayer mode, add a loyalty program/stuffed animal so people will want to buy your games new. Keep your customer happy and at best you have a sale for your next game and at worst you have kept the current game off the used shelf.

Keep in mind the only ones who complain about used games sales tend to be the large publisher houses. EA, Activision, and Ubisoft are getting killed by used game sales but companies like Atlus, NISA and XSEED are doing fine? Its because the latter companies go out of their way to do things to keep their customer happy. Does it mean you never see their games on the used shelf? Of course not. But they are a rarity compared to the yearly releases that come out of Ubi/EA/Activision.


I do agree with that, the larger companies just expect you to blindly purchase their product as the holy grail, but they also have much larger dev teams.
The bolded part though sounds like an admission that used sales do in fact have an impact on companies.
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