Were the graphics for this console overstimated?

#101DiscostewSMPosted 12/20/2012 1:46:37 PM
Simon_Isturiz posted...
- Wii U RAM is way more abundant, but it's base speed is slower. However, this is mitigated by the fact that there's assloads of eDRAM on the CPU. So while the base speed is slower, it can move much more data in the same number of cycles. This was to save on cost.


Let's also make one more point here. Bandwidth is lower on Wii U RAM, but what no one is taking into consideration is latency.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/No-RAM-Latency-for-Wii-U-According-to-Nano-Assault-Dev-304551.shtml
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#102Elements012894Posted 12/20/2012 2:08:26 PM
Launch level graphics of the system is on par with the best multiplats on PS3/360

Eventually we'll see games push it further. The system is probably about twice as strong as the 360. Just a guess though.
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#103brainlackPosted 12/20/2012 2:57:10 PM
my pentium 4 is much greater than the wii u but for the cpu

cpu : Cell(read learning courses of cell)>xenon(yeah xbox with ht)>>wii u cpu(power based not power 7 which many assume that wii u cpu is new architecture)>my p4

gpu : my p4 look at sig > wii u > xbox 360 > ps3
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#104JKatarnPosted 12/20/2012 3:00:25 PM(edited)
BigAl519 posted...
JKatarn posted...
AbysmalTrinity posted...
FPS_hitman posted...
No its not I posted multiple articles that proved this while no one can post anything claiming opposite. Its weaker then the 360 and based off of 1997 gamecube tech.


Gamecube could do 1080p 60FPS?

Nice.


None of the current titles are running at native 1080p at 60FPS, many third-party parts are even lagging behind the 360/PS3 in performance/visuals. I'm not saying the console isn't capable of 1080p, but based on what we've seen thusfar from first and third-party games, it seems doubtful.


If you are going to try and argue something, at least be educated on the point you are arguing. Trine 2 runs at a full 1080p with 60fps and has been hailed as far superior to the PS3/360 versions graphically.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-trine-2-face-off


If you are going to insult someone, you might try reading the article you are linking closely:

"All three console versions render in 720p [Update: Frozenbyte has now confirmed dynamic resolution scaling on PS3 and 360 to sustain frame-rate vs. locked native resolution on Wii U" -

This means that the 360/PS3 drop below 720p at times to maintain framerate while the wii-U is locked at 720p - the game is 720p upscaled to 1080p just like every other 360/PS3 game before it (well, a few games actually run sub 720P). If they're not rendering 2D viewpoint games like NSMBWU and Trine 2 at full HD, I seriously doubt the console is capable of 1080p 60 FPS.

Oh, here's another relevant quote from said article:

"Moving on, resolution and image quality are two areas where the PC version eclipse the Wii U and other consoles considerably, showing why the current batch of consoles are no match for a powerful gaming rig. Firstly, it is possible to run the game in much higher resolutions than 720p (where things look much sharper). And secondly, much better anti-aliasing modes are available that cater for a range of systems. Standard FXAA is given a higher-quality implementation, while super sampling (SSAA) provides much better coverage over fine details."

So no, it neither runs at 1080p, 60fps or looks "much better" than the other versions. Don't get me wrong, it would be awesome if it did, but Nintendo wanted to design a power-efficient console that meets/exceeds current consoles and they did - it's not the second coming you're hoping for.

I should add that I own the game for PC and it looks gorgeous and runs smoothly (and at 1080p), and the Wii-U definitely isn't running the game at 1080p.
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#105ugoo18Posted 12/20/2012 3:09:23 PM(edited)
JKatarn posted...
AbysmalTrinity posted...
FPS_hitman posted...
No its not I posted multiple articles that proved this while no one can post anything claiming opposite. Its weaker then the 360 and based off of 1997 gamecube tech.


Gamecube could do 1080p 60FPS?

Nice.


None of the current titles are running at native 1080p at 60FPS, many third-party parts are even lagging behind the 360/PS3 in performance/visuals. I'm not saying the console isn't capable of 1080p, but based on what we've seen thusfar from first and third-party games, it seems doubtful.


It's this kind of glaring lack of knowledge coupled with sweeping statements that makes this board in particular one of the worst on this site (Which itself is an achievement).

1080p games so far for the system

Tori Toki 2 (Eshop)
Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate (60fps)
Skylanders Giants
Scribblenauts Unlimited (60fps)
Dragon Quest X
Transformers Prime (60fps)
Cloudberry Kingdom (Eshop)
Puddle (Eshop) (60fps)
Rayman Legends (60fps)


Tori Toki 2
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-10-toki-tori-2-flutters-onto-wii-u-in-1080p


Monster Hunter Tri Ultimate
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/10/monster_hunter_3_ultimate_will_run_at_1080p_on_wii_u


Skylanders Giants
http://www.examiner.com/article/skylanders-giants-joins-the-wii-u-1080p-club-but-will-not-support-miiverse


Scribblenauts Unlimited
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38711446&postcount=60 (Straight from the head of 5th Cell himself in response to DF's incorrect assessment after E3).


Dragon Quest X
http://www.nintendo-nation.net/dragon-quest-x-wii-u-the-laziness-of-square-enix-online/


Transformers Prime
http://www.examiner.com/article/transformers-prime-receives-1080p-upgrade-for-the-wii-u


Puddle (Eshop)
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/10/08/puddle-runs-at-full-1080p-60-fps-on-wii-u/


Rayman Legends
http://thewiiu.com/topic/8246-rayman-legends-confirmed-to-run-at-1080p-60fps/


Nano Assault Neo (This runs at 720p however Shinen did create a 1080p version during the dev cycle)
http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/11/03/shinen-mega-interview-harnessing-the-wii-u-power/

Can't find the article for Cloudberry Kingdom anymore (It was a gonintendo article) but we will hear of it again as it's release gets closer (It was delayed till 2013).

Your idea about 1080p being doubtful is based on false info and is therefore incorrect.

Also how does it logically make sense to you that 1080p on a system released after the PS360 being doubtful when the PS360 had select titles at 1080p.

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#106GdboyratedloudPosted 12/20/2012 3:12:48 PM
so we're still on cpu speed=cpu power/system power?????

-facepalm-

the cpu of the wii u has more cache and 32 MB of edram.

also, i head someone say that one broadway core outclasses and is better than one xenon core. think i heard this on here lol

Plus its an OoOE CPU which is better than an in orderCPU

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=21610
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#107ugoo18Posted 12/20/2012 3:28:15 PM(edited)
Gdboyratedloud posted...
so we're still on cpu speed=cpu power/system power?????

-facepalm-

the cpu of the wii u has more cache and 32 MB of edram.

also, i head someone say that one broadway core outclasses and is better than one xenon core. think i heard this on here lol

Plus its an OoOE CPU which is better than an in orderCPU

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=21610


It doesn't necessarily outclass it instead the Xenon only outperforms the Wii CPU by about 20% which considering the overall difference between them

Wii

Out-of-order CPU at 729mhz

vs


360

3.2ghz in-order CPU (Massive clock difference as well as a larger L2/L1 cache)

Is terrible and goes to show how bad the 360's CPU is. Which is why all 3 are opting for more efficient OoOE CPU's next gen.

The WiiU's CPU is supposed to use 3 PowerPC 750 cores which are similar in their design to the Wii's CPU and they are clocked (According to the teardown by Marcan) at 1.2ghz, so at the most basic level it's 3 highly modified Wii CPU's with almost double the clock speed (This is not taking into account the modifications made to the cores).

Before some jack*** comes in shooting down the clock speed Durango's rumored clock speed is 1.6ghz, so unless they want to apply herp derp logic and say the 360 will be above Durango then they should kindly shut it (Not directed at you by the way in case it seems that way).


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#108ArabrockermanXPosted 12/20/2012 3:45:54 PM
mistermerk posted...
knightimex posted...
More so than ps3.

See trine 2.

More to come.

Believe it.


Less so than the PS3.

See Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tekken-tag-tournament-2-on-wii-u-face-off) and most other 3d big-budget third-party games.

It's easy to cherry-pick examples to paint the picture we want.

Having said that, TC, the graphics for the Wii U have been grossly overestimated. There were times this year and last where the fanboys spouted the the Wii U would do 360/Ps3 games in 1080p/60fps, or run equivalent to a high-end PC version (lol). Not only has that not been achieved, but the Wii U version of games isn't even up to par to the 360 version in most cases so faróI'd say that's an overestimation.

On a technical level, I doubt we'll ever see anything on the Wii U approach God of War:Ascensions, The Last of Us, or Halo 4. Artistically, there will be Wii U games that are gorgeous for the hardware they're on on, a la Galaxy 1/2, Xenoblade, etc.


On a technical level it will match and surpass all the titles you listed in some ways. Only problem is I don't see any third party titles doing it because it will take too much effort for a rather small gain. If anything they will likely stay rather close to launch titles unless the Wii U becomes a solid platform for 3rd party titles.
#109ish0turfac3Posted 12/20/2012 3:54:52 PM
*looks at all the mumble jumble* *doesn't understand nor care about the specs* *goes back to playing wiiu because it is fun*
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#110SolisPosted 12/20/2012 4:01:04 PM
JKatarn posted...
Um, no, that's wrong - both MS and Sony were losing money on every console sold until a few years ago - they had 4/5 years or so of eating losses on the hardware (moreso in Sony's case), hoping to make it up with software.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html
Microsoft Trims Xbox 360 Manufacturing Costs by 40%.
Microsoft May Earn Profit Selling Xbox 360

11/20/2006

"According to iSuppliís most recent analysis, the premium version of the Xbox 360 game machine equipped with hard disk drive has a manufacturing and materials total of $323.30, based on an updated estimate using costs in the fourth quarter of 2006. This total is $75.70 less than the $399 suggested retail price of the Xbox 360. Even though it is obvious that Microsoft still has to subtract freight, toll, retail partnerís profit and other possible charges, it is highly likely that Microsoft has either managed to reduce its loss to minimal, or is making a tiny profit selling the $399 flavour of the Xbox 360."


Simon_Isturiz posted...
The Wii U GPU is actually a GPGPU, and one that is significantly more capable than the oens found within the PS3/360. The Wii U is an unorthodox system compared to current gen consoles. It was designed to be a GPGPU intensive system. Even most high end gaming PCs are leaning towards utilizing beefy GPGPUs. What this means is that the GPGPU helps offload many of the processing tasks normally handled by the CPU, and it performs them better. This helps mitigate the lower clocked CPU, as much of the load the CPU traditionally performs is being offloaded by the Wii U's powerful GPGPU.


That's an extreme assumption (and one that's rather misleading, since the Xbox 360 was capable of GPGPU processing as well). Most functions that a CPU is responsible for cannot be offloaded to a GPU efficiently. There are only a certain set of features that a GPU would be adept at executing (specifically highly parallelized tasks).

Using the GPU for general purpose operations is for accelerating functions that the GPU is more adept at anyway, not as a crutch to make up for a weak CPU.
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