I find it perplexing when people use the argument "the 3DS will keep Nintendo...

#61NeojianXPosted 12/26/2012 12:48:54 PM(edited)
GoombaX
Posted 12/26/2012 1:12:20 PM
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which is why nintendo will be with us for a very long time.


I did mean good third party games though. Ha ha ha!

seriously though, I mostly play 3rd party games for every system I have owned.

I'm the dude that had over 85 wii games that I wanted. You know most of them were 3rd party games. None of those Wii shovelware games either. Well, maybe a few of them that I liked.

Not cool when Nintendo does not bring proven games out like Culdcept for the DS and 3DS in Japan only. Also no Custom Robo for the Wii.

The best Pokemon game I played on my Wii, was the Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness for the Gamecube. Really should not have removed the GCN BC from the Wii.

Might be a matter of like Sony, you can't be trusted.
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#62kissdadookiePosted 12/26/2012 12:45:38 PM
BlueSophia posted...

Said Looney bin fantasy world became a reality during the DS Era and then the WIi era, essentially making your comments go like farts in the wind. For all you just made up, it pretty much amounted to the same argument that many have made and have been proven wrong. Sit down and have a drink, wait for the news and then cry as Sony and Microsoft post their debilitating losses.


I totally explained the Wii and DS era. Nintendo DOES NOT have another DS or Wii situation on their hands. So no, my comments are not like farts in the wind. The fact that you couldn't even grasp the fact that Nintendo DOES NOT have a repeat of the DS and Wii with the 3DS and Wii U AND on top of this, the exchange rate is not going to resolve itself in the next couple of years AND Nintendo is taking in a much lower profit margin this time around than they did with the DS and Wii.

ALL of this I've touched on and went into details for yet you've chose to ignore it all and come on here telling me that I'm wrong due to your absolutely asinine belief that Nintendo is currently in a DS and Wii situation with the 3DS and Wii U.

Sony is going to post a loss, their entire company is getting hit hard, but again, they are flexible as they have assets thus can lose dead weight.

MS having debilitating losses? What are you, an absolute idiot? MS has been posting significant NET PROFITS for their Xbox business for years now AND they are selling the 360s at a loss STILL (I think they are still selling the hardware at a lost).

So, what kind of absolute looney bin fantasy worlds do people like you go into and come back with such absolute nonsensical claims as MS posting debilitating losses, absolute lack of understanding that Sony has a lot of dead weight in a lot of businesses they are in but they can resolve this by selling off these business buying them lots of time to salvage their remaining businesses, and the absolutely ludicrous assumption that Nintendo is in the same situation as they were in with the Wii and DS as they are with their current 3DS and Wii U products.

I mean, if we went by your logic, ALL COMPANIES that had a success will remain successful forever. Because that is basically your argument (look at the DS and Wii! if that happens then the 3DS and Wii U will be the same!). Absolutely LUDICROUS. Going by your logic, Apple would have been profitable since the inception of the company.
#63GoombaXPosted 12/26/2012 12:50:05 PM
NeojianX posted...
GoombaX
Posted 12/26/2012 1:12:20 PM
message detail
quote

which is why nintendo will be with us for a very long time.


I did mean good third party games though. Ha ha ha!

seriously though, I mostly play 3rd party games for every system I have owned.

I'm the dude that had over 85 wii games that I wanted. You know most of them were 3rd party games. None of those Wii shovelware games either. Well, maybe a few of them that I liked.

Not cool when Nintendo does not bring proven games out like Culdcept for the DS and 3DS in Japan only. Also no Custom Robo for the Wii.

The best Pokemon game I played on my Wii, was the Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness for the Gamecube. Really should not have removed the GCN BC from the Wii.

Might be a matter of like Sony, you can't be trusted.


ill admit their 3rd party was poor lst gen but this gen will prolly be different.
hopefully
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#64kissdadookiePosted 12/26/2012 12:56:42 PM(edited)
1shadetail1 posted...
kissdadookie posted...
HA HA HA HA HA HA. I love how absolutely clueless you are on the subject.

...said the one who's really clueless. For instance, you brought up the N64 and Gamecube as evidence of your point, ignoring the fact that Nintendo profited handsomely off both of those systems despite their bad sales figures.

No, Nintendo is not in trouble. They know what they're doing, and that is a fact, your ignorant rambling notwithstanding.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. I didn't say that Nintendo loss money on the N64 or GC, but those two systems certainly didn't maintain the company. The money they made during those time period predominantly came from their handheld businesses. What part of this do you not understand?

You probably think that Nintendo makes plenty of money off of software don't you? Yet you probably do not understand that licensing and software sales accounts for a TINY SLIVER of their total revenue pie. You're probably one of those going "Oh, Nintendo will be fine, they can just keep selling games, games makes a lot of money right? Nintendo will be fine. Look, they made X amount of money from software last year!" without realizing that the money made from software wasn't nearly anywhere near enough to just cover their expenses.

See, people like you don't understand that there is this thing called operating expenses. Yes, you can make money on systems like N64 and GC but at the end of the day, whatever profits you make needs to cover your expenses. Nintendo would have been in a VERY different situation if they didn't have a handheld market. Heck, let's take the Wii for instance. They made a TON of money with the Wii did they not? Yet last year they end up with a net loss but it wasn't like they were taking a loss on Wii consoles. What was the problem? The problem was revenue minus expenses ='s net loss. You can make money on the hardware, a lot of money, but it needs to cover your expenses. After expenses is the money you lose or make. Period. Not a hard concept but apparently to you, it's like rocket science.

Let's put it in another way. You can profit from hardware from day one. Make a lot of revenue from it, but if you don't sell enough of them to cover your operating expenses, that's not a good thing. See, your argument for the N64 and GC is most likely you looking at just the revenue those systems brought it, but of course, you fail to factor in the all important OPERATING EXPENSES. You never thought about "hey, does the sales of the N64 and GC actually net them a net positive or a net loss?" Nintendo essentially almost never takes a loss on hardware and you probably looked at that and just assume that they don't lose money. You forget however that they have expenses to cover and that they need to sell X amount of units to cover expenses. So again, without the handheld market, they would have found it very hard to end up staying in the green during the N64 and GC generations.
#65Enigma149Posted 12/26/2012 1:01:55 PM
kissdadookie posted...
BlueSophia posted...
Said Looney bin fantasy world became a reality during the DS Era and then the WIi era, essentially making your comments go like farts in the wind. For all you just made up, it pretty much amounted to the same argument that many have made and have been proven wrong. Sit down and have a drink, wait for the news and then cry as Sony and Microsoft post their debilitating losses.


I totally explained the Wii and DS era. Nintendo DOES NOT have another DS or Wii situation on their hands. So no, my comments are not like farts in the wind. The fact that you couldn't even grasp the fact that Nintendo DOES NOT have a repeat of the DS and Wii with the 3DS and Wii U AND on top of this, the exchange rate is not going to resolve itself in the next couple of years AND Nintendo is taking in a much lower profit margin this time around than they did with the DS and Wii.

ALL of this I've touched on and went into details for yet you've chose to ignore it all and come on here telling me that I'm wrong due to your absolutely asinine belief that Nintendo is currently in a DS and Wii situation with the 3DS and Wii U.


Actually, you haven't presented a single credible argument at all, and most of your "facts" are incorrect. For example, you said that, were it not for handhelds, Nintendo wouldn't have made it through the Nintendo 64 and GameCube eras. In fact, Nintendo made money off of both systems. You claim that the only reason Nintendo said they were taking a hit on the Wii U was to use it as an excuse for their investors, yet their earnings reports and investors' meetings clearly outline not only what losses they are taking, but what they are taking those losses on. You say that they cannot rely on software to make up money they lose on the 3DS and Wii U, yet the 3DS has returned to per-unit profitability, and the hit they are taking on the Wii U isn't even in double-digits. You also ignore the fact that, for a company with $20 billion in the bank, taking an annual $450 million loss isn't going to put them anywhere near bankruptcy within 10 years.

Sony is going to post a loss, their entire company is getting hit hard, but again, they are flexible as they have assets thus can lose dead weight.


Nintendo's got assets, too. Not as many as Sony, but selling the Seattle Mariners should make up for a year-or-two of losses, and their card game division could make up another year. And, of course, Sony hasn't made a profit in a decade, and lost $6 billion last year. And when you consider that they only have $60 billion in assets...

MS having debilitating losses? What are you, an absolute idiot? MS has been posting significant NET PROFITS for their Xbox business for years now AND they are selling the 360s at a loss STILL (I think they are still selling the hardware at a lost).


Actually, he was referencing Microsotf as a whole. Guess what? Microsoft has had losses these past two years that add up to more than the losses they've taken in the past 20. Much like Nintendo. Of course, since Microsoft has close to $100 billion in the bank, they're not in danger for a long time, either. Then again, they've also got to research and develop a new system, and they've got more competition now that Valve's entering the console business (sort of), and they've got to somehow get Windows Phone off the ground, and they've got to convince people to buy Windows 8, and they've got to prove that the Surface is a viable competitor to the iPad.
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#66Enigma149Posted 12/26/2012 1:03:56 PM
kissdadookie posted...
1shadetail1 posted...
kissdadookie posted...
HA HA HA HA HA HA. I love how absolutely clueless you are on the subject.

...said the one who's really clueless. For instance, you brought up the N64 and Gamecube as evidence of your point, ignoring the fact that Nintendo profited handsomely off both of those systems despite their bad sales figures.

No, Nintendo is not in trouble. They know what they're doing, and that is a fact, your ignorant rambling notwithstanding.


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. I didn't say that Nintendo loss money on the N64 or GC, but those two systems certainly didn't maintain the company. The money they made during those time period predominantly came from their handheld businesses. What part of this do you not understand?

You probably think that Nintendo makes plenty of money off of software don't you? Yet you probably do not understand that licensing and software sales accounts for a TINY SLIVER of their total revenue pie. You're probably one of those going "Oh, Nintendo will be fine, they can just keep selling games, games makes a lot of money right? Nintendo will be fine. Look, they made X amount of money from software last year!" without realizing that the money made from software wasn't nearly anywhere near enough to just cover their expenses.

See, people like you don't understand that there is this thing called operating expenses. Yes, you can make money on systems like N64 and GC but at the end of the day, whatever profits you make needs to cover your expenses. Nintendo would have been in a VERY different situation if they didn't have a handheld market. Heck, let's take the Wii for instance. They made a TON of money with the Wii did they not? Yet last year they end up with a net loss but it wasn't like they were taking a loss on Wii consoles. What was the problem? The problem was revenue minus expenses ='s net loss. You can make money on the hardware, a lot of money, but it needs to cover your expenses. After expenses is the money you lose or make. Period. Not a hard concept but apparently to you, it's like rocket science.

Let's put it in another way. You can profit from hardware from day one. Make a lot of revenue from it, but if you don't sell enough of them to cover your operating expenses, that's not a good thing. See, your argument for the N64 and GC is most likely you looking at just the revenue those systems brought it, but of course, you fail to factor in the all important OPERATING EXPENSES. You never thought about "hey, does the sales of the N64 and GC actually net them a net positive or a net loss?" Nintendo essentially almost never takes a loss on hardware and you probably looked at that and just assume that they don't lose money. You forget however that they have expenses to cover and that they need to sell X amount of units to cover expenses. So again, without the handheld market, they would have found it very hard to end up staying in the green during the N64 and GC generations.


You...do realize that most of the losses they took during the last year were caused by the 3DS selling at a loss, and not operating expenses, right?
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3DS:4897-5935-1924; PS3 sold in anticipation of PS4. If you added CrimsonEnigma, I no longer use the account.
'Your opinion does not matter.' -DesperateMonkey
#67kissdadookiePosted 12/26/2012 1:19:06 PM
Enigma149 posted...

You...do realize that most of the losses they took during the last year were caused by the 3DS selling at a loss, and not operating expenses, right?


You didn't read their financial report did you? The 3DS price cut accounted for some of the poor financial showing but they've noted that their net loss was heavily due to exchange rates as well as the dramatic slow down of Wii sales.

Look at the 3DS. Look at the components it uses. Even though they took a loss with the 3DS, it's not actually as dramatic as you would be led to believe. Just like how they say that the Wii U is sold at a loss but turns a profit when they sell just one game (thus most likely, the only system taking a loss is most probably the basic systems).

What one needs to understand is that you can't just take Nintendo's word for things like why they are losing money. You have to look at sales trends. You have to look at their financials carefully. What they announce publicly is basically PR nonsense. If the 3DS was so dramatic in causing their net loss last year, then according to that logic, MS would not have been making money for years now on the 360 because the 360 basically sold at a loss since day one and I believe even up to now the hardware is still being sold at a loss.

Again, if you look at their financials as a whole, the 3DS accounted for a part of their problem, but the bigger problem for Nintendo was the short on being able to move more units of basically EVERYTHING they have on offer. They literally spent more money than they made (operating expenses) and this was due to their misjudgement on the economy as well as sales projections. Remember, Nintendo does everything to a budget. They figure that they will be able to make X amount of money and thus they will spend Y amount of money. When they build systems, they have a price point in mind and then they will build AROUND that price point.

Nintendo is a very CAREFUL company. Like I said, if Nintendo did not have a care in the world, they would NEVER have been so vocal about selling the Wii U at a loss then shortly after they changed their tunes and said that they make a profit after selling just one game per system. Think about this for a moment, why did they become so vocal about the loss in the first place? It was to get around to not having to drop the price and also having a reason for possible under-performance in the upcoming financials. Why then did they change their tune so quickly after? Because they saw investor panic thus explained the "sell one game and we make a profit!" It's all PR spin people. The 3DS being sold at a loss really had less to do with the net loss than the overspending Nintendo did due to overprojection of how many Wii's they could sell. Simple as that.

Why do you think the Wii U was announced at the time it was announced and why do you think that the system felt rushed at release? It was mostly because of that over-projection of Wii sales. They saw how badly that affected their financials and thus they quickly hammered out the Wii U. Heck, that's why Nintendo took longer to release a follow up to the Wii than their usual 3 year cycle, because they were overprojecting and thought that the system will keep selling gang busters. Thing took a dive in sales and all of a sudden Nintendo becomes a very active company pushing out new products.
#68paleselanPosted 12/26/2012 1:21:22 PM
3DS is profitable now. Furthermore, in Japan the 3DS has sold more in 2 years than the PS3 did in 6.
#69kissdadookiePosted 12/26/2012 1:24:27 PM
paleselan posted...
3DS is profitable now. Furthermore, in Japan the 3DS has sold more in 2 years than the PS3 did in 6.


Nobody is arguing the profitability of the 3DS now. But again, like I've said above, the whole "selling at a loss" excuse Nintendo uses has less to do with their actual net loss than people believe it to be. Their financials really at the end of the day comes down to how many units they can move. The more units they are able to move, they cheaper they can get the system manufactured at as well as the more software they can sell to offset any loss that the hardware might make.

I'm shocked at how many people just read these Nintendo articles where Nintendo is spinning PR nonsense and taking that as gospel.
#70Bancario51Posted 12/26/2012 1:25:26 PM
mmm root beer afloats
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