These rumors of the PS4 and XBox720 not running used games. (Wall of text)

#151ZarchoniaPosted 1/3/2013 6:35:54 PM
godplaysSNES posted...
Companies like Gamestop isn't screwing anyone over. Pretty much every industry has a second hand market, why shall gaming suddenly be excluded?


Because in other 2nd hand markets the product is affected by wear and tear of the previous user making it less valuable than the original. Buy a used car, there's wear and tear on the motor, the tires, the transmission, the interior, the exterior, etc. You are getting a product in worse condition than if you purchased it new from the factory. This analogy carries through to other used products, book bindings wear out, tools degrade, furniture wears, etc. I could go on an on. This is also why a used product is often much less than its original counterpart, you pay less because you are accepted a worn product.

If you have a used copy of the game it is no worse than the original game, you get the exact same game that I did when I bought it new no different. Especially as games become more and more digital you won't even have a disc that could have scratches on it (which btw gamestop guarantees new games and you can get a scratched/damaged one replaced).

TLDR; Gamestop isn't actually selling you a "USED" product in the traditional sense of a used product.
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#152EnVy_CaLiBeRPosted 1/3/2013 7:12:23 PM
Zarchonia posted...
godplaysSNES posted...
SgtInfinity posted...
- Used games become a thing of the past
- Retail price drops due to not having to make up for losses because of used game sales.
- To make more profit, companies start doing holiday sales similar to steam.

What the hell are you all complaining about.


Point 1: That's not positive
Point 2: They may as well go up, since there isn't any other buying option
Point 3: Or simply never makes a discount at all


Point 2: Ever learn economics? You think they just arbitrarily arrived at $60? You also think that if new games increased in price to $70-75 that that wouldn't affect the gaming market?

All of your points seem to discredit Steams way of doing business and say that it doesn't matter. Yet if you look at steam, you'll see it's wildly successful because of the way it does business.

Being a greedy corporate money hog doesn't get you to win in the entertainment market because entertainment is optional.

Sony/MS are doing this because places like Gamestop are screwing over developers/publishers by offering players a game for a $5 discount with ZERO of the money going to the developer/publisher. Gamestop also pushes and encourages used games sales to their consumers (offering more rewards etc.).

How would you feel if you created something and then were undercut on that product by about 10% on the first day you release that product (Yes you can buy used games literally the day or day after they come out because people trade them in) AND you see zero money on the product sold for 10% less?


It's not just Gamestop that offer used games. If Sony/Microsoft do this, you take away every single possible way a consumer can get a game cheaper. This includes, Craigslist, Ebay, borrowing from friends, along with places like Gamestop, Best Buy, Amazon, etc. It's essentially handicapping the consumer as to how they can weigh their options and that won't go well with consumers regardless of how those developers feel. As much as it isn't good for business that they lose sales on those used games, consumer loyalty is far more valuable because if the game is good, then you can expect buyers to purchase future installments along with DLC if its provided that a developer can get money back on their games.

And while we may indeed see a price drop on retail games, how significant of a drop do you believe there will be initially to where this won't matter to consumers?
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#153LDNPosted 1/3/2013 7:18:00 PM
Blu ray discs are scratch proof, thats why all the ps3 games I used to buy where used. I hope they do plan to stop the sale of used games. Gamestop is becoming the stores that used to sell music cd's, they were big back in the day but are diminishing in size due to the digital distribution.
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#154ZarchoniaPosted 1/3/2013 7:23:41 PM
EnVy_CaLiBeR posted...

It's not just Gamestop that offer used games. If Sony/Microsoft do this, you take away every single possible way a consumer can get a game cheaper. This includes, Craigslist, Ebay, borrowing from friends, along with places like Gamestop, Best Buy, Amazon, etc. It's essentially handicapping the consumer as to how they can weigh their options and that won't go well with consumers regardless of how those developers feel. As much as it isn't good for business that they lose sales on those used games, consumer loyalty is far more valuable because if the game is good, then you can expect buyers to purchase future installments along with DLC if its provided that a developer can get money back on their games.

And while we may indeed see a price drop on retail games, how significant of a drop do you believe there will be initially to where this won't matter to consumers?



You raise some very valid points on other ways to acquire used games. I indeed used to share and borrow many games from my NES/SNES days with my neighbors. I agree that this was awesome, but we don't live in those times anymore unfortunately. There are tons of ways to see/experience a game before you decide it's worth the investment to purchase. There's professional and user reviews on tons of websites, there's videos demonstrating gameplay, there's even streams of players playing the game that you could watch to see what it is like. It's no longer the case that the only way to play a game was to play at a friends, the demo console in a store, or rent a copy from blockbuster.

One thing I have seen on Steam (I have PS3/XBOX/steam, just to show that I'm not totally STEAM ERMAGERD). Is that they will have weekends where you can play a game for free for about 48 hours (Usually games based on the multiplayer experience) to see if you like it. Perhaps a system like this would be implemented on consoles, or DEMOs would be more common and fleshed out (Remeber PS1 demo discs, FUN for hours).

I don't know how much a drop we could expect to see to be honest because I don't know how much used games sales are actually cutting into developer/publisher profits. Maybe a 5-10% drop (which is the current drop for most used games unless they are older 6 months +). We also could see sales on games offered by developers to encourage players to buy them.

As an aside I like some of you as debaters as you actually debate the topic and don't mindlessly insult the poster for their opinion or spew nonsense.
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#155genlockPosted 1/3/2013 7:27:43 PM
I feel like Zarchonia is one of the few people with a grasp of the issue here.

I also seriously doubt people will stop buying games or systems or supporting companies that implement this practice. More likely those people will find a way to rationalize it depending on their predisposition to the game/company/product.

This is very clearly the fallout of competing economic models of the very successful Steam model and the very unsuccessful Gamestop model. (These terms are not meant to exist in isolation - other companies exist in both models). I realize not everyone has experienced both and fewer still probably have sussed out the implications of the two, but this is something that has been predicted as inevitable for a long time coming.

And yes, this will lower the price of games across the board. The market will respond to all the issues people have with things like "bringing a game to a friend's house." In fact, I doubt this Sony model will win out at all, because I think it has plenty of problems, but it is an early version of what will likely work best for everyone.
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#156_LordAndSaviorPosted 1/3/2013 7:30:41 PM
I buy all my games new as well, but refuse to do this. I like having a physical product I paid for. Not some invisible digital media that I can lose if the company goes under, etc.
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#157genlockPosted 1/3/2013 7:35:51 PM
_LordAndSavior posted...
I buy all my games new as well, but refuse to do this. I like having a physical product I paid for. Not some invisible digital media that I can lose if the company goes under, etc.


I can't imagine any successful model would affect you by having a company go under. In fact, just the opposite. You could far more easily purchase games that are no longer being published because they are being stored securely (with correct backup) in the cloud, independent of the publisher.

In other words, your media lasts longer, games may not become obscure, It's FAR more environmentally efficient, and it's certainly more space efficient, too (though this may be negligible for many people).
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#158AwayFromHerePosted 1/3/2013 7:43:40 PM
I keep seeing anti-consumer being thrown around, and yeah, I'm not exactly on the side of the companies that wish to do this, but if these companies aren't supported, they go away. Those games you love to play, go away.

You buy used, you kill companies.

No, don't bring up the bulls*** about 'they already got paid for the copy I bought used.' One person paid the company that made the game, you wanted to play said game and instead of paying the company that made it, you paid a third party re-seller and gave them your money. You buy new, you support the developers/publishers, you get to keep playing.

Also, those that buy only certain companies games used because you 'boycott' their practices, stop with the bulls***. You boycott a company, you don't buy their games, period.
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#159AwayFromHerePosted 1/3/2013 7:45:33 PM
From: godplaysSNES | #148
Companies like Gamestop isn't screwing anyone over. Pretty much every industry has a second hand market, why shall gaming suddenly be excluded?


And no other second hand seller posts billions of dollars in profit every year.
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#160gybugyPosted 1/3/2013 7:55:56 PM
Xeeh_Bitz posted...
It only effects poor people.

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