I wish it only cost me $1 to convert my DVDs to Blue-Rays

#141emayerPosted 1/26/2013 1:26:31 PM
excitebike64 posted...
What I find odd is that the complainers want us to somehow assume that when they bought games on the Wii they expected these games to be played on future hardware, when there was no evidence this was going to even happen in the first place.

So anyone buying Wii VC games before the Wii U was out, got their money's worth and now are just nitpicking with complaints. At least it is still possible to play these games on the WIi U. At least, it is a small fee to upgrade.


I think the name "Virtual Console" implies otherwise. I wasn't buying all of those games as Wii titles. I was buying the games themselves. The Wii was the medium through which I accessed those games and the "virtual console" at the time. But if I have to buy the same games for the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, then it's a misnomer. There is no "virtual" console. The console is the Wii, or the 3DS, or the Wii U, or whatever future hardware sells these games again.
#142darkjedilinkPosted 1/26/2013 1:29:18 PM
metroid00700 posted...
darkjedilink posted...

Yes, it's possible to make a "one-size-fits-all" emulator. I never argued that it wasn't. However, it IS impossible to make one that offers absolutely one-hundred-percent perfect emulation of every game with zero bugs AND no customization for particular games. EVEN THE EMULATOR MANUFACTURERS ADMIT THIS.

Hell, Project64 has a list of every game that will work with their emulator, which ones are absolutely broken, and which ones fall somewhere in between. BSNES - widely considered the best SNES emulator in existence, has pretty high CPU requirements for decent emulation AND THE GUY WHO MADE IT ADMITTED AS RECENTLY AS LAST YEAR IT ISN'T PERFECT.

Nintendo wants as close to perfect emulation as perfectly possible, even at the cost of making the games better. The ONLY way to do this is custom emulation per-game. However, the biggest limitation of this is that Wii VC games can NOT work on the Wii U outside of a Wii imitation, which means no GamePad functionality.

They told us this months ago.

If you want the GamePad functionality, you have to pay for it. There's no way around this fact. Discussing the way other emulators work doesn't change it (or even help the case, since every other emulator in existence has its own shortcomings).


True enough, but outside of PJ64, the emulators I listed do the job better than what Nintendo provides, and are free, one size fits all. I don't give a **** if Nintendo custom emulates each game (which I doubt they do now with NES/SNES since the grunt work should be done), the fact remains they can't run the games (outside of N64, even if PJ64 1.7 (I believe you keep referring to 1.6) has way more options) as well as PC emulators. Hell, Nintendo can't even do NES or C64 games right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Console#Criticism . I also love how Iwata on Iwata Asks backpedaled on his original statement saying the Gamepad isn't a fit for Super Mario Bros.


You can doubt custom emulation for VC all you want - it's what's done. It was proven a long time ago. Again, the file size of Balloon Fight proves they continue to do this - it's far too small to install a standard emulator into the OS, but it's still over ten times the size of Balloon Fight on the Wii.

And, again, you can keep claiming that PC emulators are better than VC, but the developers of those emulators say just the opposite. I'll take the guy who made the damned emulator's word over yours, especially when my own experience with VC and PC emulators backs up their statement and mine.
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Gaming is like a pair of boobs - Sony and Microsoft fight over whos boobs look more realistic, while Nintendo is about having fun with them - Walkiethrougie
#143darkjedilinkPosted 1/26/2013 1:32:01 PM
emayer posted...
excitebike64 posted...
What I find odd is that the complainers want us to somehow assume that when they bought games on the Wii they expected these games to be played on future hardware, when there was no evidence this was going to even happen in the first place.

So anyone buying Wii VC games before the Wii U was out, got their money's worth and now are just nitpicking with complaints. At least it is still possible to play these games on the WIi U. At least, it is a small fee to upgrade.


I think the name "Virtual Console" implies otherwise. I wasn't buying all of those games as Wii titles. I was buying the games themselves. The Wii was the medium through which I accessed those games and the "virtual console" at the time. But if I have to buy the same games for the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, then it's a misnomer. There is no "virtual" console. The console is the Wii, or the 3DS, or the Wii U, or whatever future hardware sells these games again.


So, again, you choose to ignore Nintendo's statements on what it is after they make them, and thinks this makes you entitled to something you're not entitled to in any way.

This suggests the problem is with your train of thought, and not Nintendo. The funny thing is, I doubt you'll ever actually realize that, even with me just telling you so. You'll just call me a fanboy and keep thinking that what Nintendo says about what they offer is irrelevant, and all that should matter is what you think it's supposed to be (even if it's the exact opposite of what you were told it was).
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Gaming is like a pair of boobs - Sony and Microsoft fight over whos boobs look more realistic, while Nintendo is about having fun with them - Walkiethrougie
#144niels200683Posted 1/26/2013 1:38:55 PM
darkjedilink posted...
TechniMyoko posted...
That's not the same. It'd be more like being charged $1 to use the DVD upscaling on a bluray player


No, actually it isn't (since the Wii Mode upscales VC games).

It would be like demanding BD-Live on DVD's in a Blu-ray player, the ability to switch camera angles and remembering exactly where the movie left off for free on the DVD.


My ps3 a.k.a bluray player DOES remember exactly where my last played DVD left off.

Also, I've got no point to make here...
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Nintendo Wii: Putting the 'p' in 'Epic'.
-Curse all these sock-eating gnomes!-
#145darkjedilinkPosted 1/26/2013 1:43:12 PM
niels200683 posted...
darkjedilink posted...
TechniMyoko posted...
That's not the same. It'd be more like being charged $1 to use the DVD upscaling on a bluray player


No, actually it isn't (since the Wii Mode upscales VC games).

It would be like demanding BD-Live on DVD's in a Blu-ray player, the ability to switch camera angles and remembering exactly where the movie left off for free on the DVD.


My ps3 a.k.a bluray player DOES remember exactly where my last played DVD left off.

Also, I've got no point to make here...


My Sony Blu-Ray player, however, does not, so that one may not be the best. However, no Blu-Ray player allows regular DVD's to access BD-Live, or even basic internet functionality at all. For that, you have to buy a Blu-Ray.

According to the logic about Wii U VC from the haters, that's an immoral cash grab that shouldn't be tolerated. Every single DVD should be able to access the same internet functionality it's companion Blu-Ray does, for free. It should also have Blu-Ray quality picture and sound, not just a faux upconversion.

And anyone who disagrees is just a Blu-Ray fanboy, desperate to prove it isn't.
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Gaming is like a pair of boobs - Sony and Microsoft fight over whos boobs look more realistic, while Nintendo is about having fun with them - Walkiethrougie
#146x2link777Posted 1/26/2013 1:48:23 PM
darkjedilink posted...
You can doubt custom emulation for VC all you want - it's what's done. It was proven a long time ago. Again, the file size of Balloon Fight proves they continue to do this - it's far too small to install a standard emulator into the OS, but it's still over ten times the size of Balloon Fight on the Wii.

And, again, you can keep claiming that PC emulators are better than VC, but the developers of those emulators say just the opposite. I'll take the guy who made the damned emulator's word over yours, especially when my own experience with VC and PC emulators backs up their statement and mine.


Pc emulators are, for the most part, better than the VC. Just because you are incompetent enough to set them up right and have issues, doesn't make the VC emulator better. Further, you have to be incredibly ignorant to think that Nintendo has someone/a team custom writing from scratch, hundred's/thousands of emulators. It just isn't happening. What is, is they have a handful of emulators, one for each system, that is tweaked for each particular game. To even suggest otherwise shows an enormous lack of knowledge on basic programming. As for balloon fight size issue, thats probably the custom tweaks/configs added to the game, with the actual emulator being part of the firmware of the Wii.
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I am the most fiendish terror that flaps in the darkest night. I am the skunk that pollutes your air. I am Negaduck!!
#147niels200683Posted 1/26/2013 1:49:42 PM
darkjedilink posted...
And anyone who disagrees is just a Blu-Ray fanboy, desperate to prove it isn't.


Yes, those darn blu-ray fanboys... don't they know HD-DVD is where it's at? This is why I troll the blu-ray boards!
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Nintendo Wii: Putting the 'p' in 'Epic'.
-Curse all these sock-eating gnomes!-
#148metroid00700Posted 1/26/2013 1:52:13 PM
darkjedilink posted...
metroid00700 posted...
darkjedilink posted...

Yes, it's possible to make a "one-size-fits-all" emulator. I never argued that it wasn't. However, it IS impossible to make one that offers absolutely one-hundred-percent perfect emulation of every game with zero bugs AND no customization for particular games. EVEN THE EMULATOR MANUFACTURERS ADMIT THIS.

Hell, Project64 has a list of every game that will work with their emulator, which ones are absolutely broken, and which ones fall somewhere in between. BSNES - widely considered the best SNES emulator in existence, has pretty high CPU requirements for decent emulation AND THE GUY WHO MADE IT ADMITTED AS RECENTLY AS LAST YEAR IT ISN'T PERFECT.

Nintendo wants as close to perfect emulation as perfectly possible, even at the cost of making the games better. The ONLY way to do this is custom emulation per-game. However, the biggest limitation of this is that Wii VC games can NOT work on the Wii U outside of a Wii imitation, which means no GamePad functionality.

They told us this months ago.

If you want the GamePad functionality, you have to pay for it. There's no way around this fact. Discussing the way other emulators work doesn't change it (or even help the case, since every other emulator in existence has its own shortcomings).


True enough, but outside of PJ64, the emulators I listed do the job better than what Nintendo provides, and are free, one size fits all. I don't give a **** if Nintendo custom emulates each game (which I doubt they do now with NES/SNES since the grunt work should be done), the fact remains they can't run the games (outside of N64, even if PJ64 1.7 (I believe you keep referring to 1.6) has way more options) as well as PC emulators. Hell, Nintendo can't even do NES or C64 games right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Console#Criticism . I also love how Iwata on Iwata Asks backpedaled on his original statement saying the Gamepad isn't a fit for Super Mario Bros.


You can doubt custom emulation for VC all you want - it's what's done. It was proven a long time ago. Again, the file size of Balloon Fight proves they continue to do this - it's far too small to install a standard emulator into the OS, but it's still over ten times the size of Balloon Fight on the Wii.

And, again, you can keep claiming that PC emulators are better than VC, but the developers of those emulators say just the opposite. I'll take the guy who made the damned emulator's word over yours, especially when my own experience with VC and PC emulators backs up their statement and mine.


I never doubted that's what is done, I'm saying its highly inefficient and Nintendo is charging us because they're inept at making a universal emulator. And where did emulator devs say that? I can see emulator devs speaking on how their emulators are not as good as the real thing, but I can't see them saying their emulators are worse than VC. Also your experience with PC emulation obviously is you not being able to properly configure your emulator (or trying it a long time ago and/or on a crap PC). I can confirm, just now, that my NES/SNES PC emulator is better in every way than the one on Wii VC. I just tested them back to back, same games and everything.
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Intel Core i7-3610QM/2 GB DDR5 NVIDIA GeForceGT/12GB DDR3 RAM
SEGA Dreamcast: THE Best Gaming System since 9/9/99
#149darkjedilinkPosted 1/26/2013 2:16:02 PM
x2link777 posted...
darkjedilink posted...
You can doubt custom emulation for VC all you want - it's what's done. It was proven a long time ago. Again, the file size of Balloon Fight proves they continue to do this - it's far too small to install a standard emulator into the OS, but it's still over ten times the size of Balloon Fight on the Wii.

And, again, you can keep claiming that PC emulators are better than VC, but the developers of those emulators say just the opposite. I'll take the guy who made the damned emulator's word over yours, especially when my own experience with VC and PC emulators backs up their statement and mine.


Pc emulators are, for the most part, better than the VC. Just because you are incompetent enough to set them up right and have issues, doesn't make the VC emulator better. Further, you have to be incredibly ignorant to think that Nintendo has someone/a team custom writing from scratch, hundred's/thousands of emulators. It just isn't happening. What is, is they have a handful of emulators, one for each system, that is tweaked for each particular game. To even suggest otherwise shows an enormous lack of knowledge on basic programming. As for balloon fight size issue, thats probably the custom tweaks/configs added to the game, with the actual emulator being part of the firmware of the Wii.


Go ahead and ignore the proof that's been around for years that each VC game is custom emulated, and think there's a universal emulator built into the Wii and Wii U.

Also, you think that Balloon fight on Wii U being 10 times the size as Balloon Fight on Wii is just "custom tweaks?" Just shut up. You clearly don't know anything about anything.

Actually, never mind. I'll just put you on ignore. You clearly don't have anything worthwhile to say about anything - no point in reading your posts.
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Gaming is like a pair of boobs - Sony and Microsoft fight over whos boobs look more realistic, while Nintendo is about having fun with them - Walkiethrougie
#150excitebike64Posted 1/26/2013 2:17:25 PM
emayer posted...
excitebike64 posted...
What I find odd is that the complainers want us to somehow assume that when they bought games on the Wii they expected these games to be played on future hardware, when there was no evidence this was going to even happen in the first place.

So anyone buying Wii VC games before the Wii U was out, got their money's worth and now are just nitpicking with complaints. At least it is still possible to play these games on the WIi U. At least, it is a small fee to upgrade.


I think the name "Virtual Console" implies otherwise. I wasn't buying all of those games as Wii titles. I was buying the games themselves. The Wii was the medium through which I accessed those games and the "virtual console" at the time. But if I have to buy the same games for the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, then it's a misnomer. There is no "virtual" console. The console is the Wii, or the 3DS, or the Wii U, or whatever future hardware sells these games again.


I think virtual was used to imply, emulating. It is not the actual console, but it is emulating the console instead.

Same thing with virtual boy, it was a way to emulate a 3d environment without being 3d. I have no idea why one would think virtual would mean "cloud" or so whatever you thought.

Virtual = emulate = imitate.