third party's hate nintendo because of how they treated them in the past .

#21KAMMYqueenPosted 2/9/2013 4:53:26 PM
private400 posted...
taken from Neogaf

I touched on this early on, but Nintendo during the NES and SNES era worked this way:

1.) Third parties were limited to the amount of games they could publish per year. Nintendo would not approve over a certain amount- though large studios like Konami created sister studios like "ultra games" to get around this restriction.

2.) Nintendo had fairly draconian policies re: censorship. language, art, themes would all be subject to a fairly arbitrary set of rules. There's a very interesting article by the makers of maniac mansion here that goes into it. This didn't change until nintendo got burned hard censoring mortal kombat.

3.) Nintendo routinely used their market position to prevent third parties from making ports of NES titles for other competing consoles like the master system. You made a game for the NES, that was it- it didn't appear anywhere else.

4.) Probably the biggest headache was the system for getting carts made. All carts were made by nintendo. from the maniac mansion article:
Quote:
The way cartridges got made at that time was you submitted a finished game to Nintendo with a letter of credit. If they accepted the game, they would tell you how many units they would manufacture for you, when, and at what price. We submitted Maniac, hopeful that our labors were completed.

so third parties had no control over how many carts would be printed. nintendo made that call based on your credit rating. not enough carts for demand? too bad. and even worse, if nintendo thought you could sell 500,000 carts and you sold 400,000, you would still owe nintendo in full for the remaining 100,000 carts you couldn't sell. One bomb could tank a studio but nintendo would make their money either way.

edit: wiki has a good explanation:
Quote:
Nintendo's intention, however, was to reserve a large part of NES game revenue for itself. Nintendo required that they be the sole manufacturer of all cartridges, and that the publisher had to pay in full before the cartridges for that game be produced. Cartridges could not be returned to Nintendo, so publishers assumed all the risk. As a result, some publishers lost more money due to distress sales of remaining inventory at the end of the NES era than they ever earned in profits from sales of the games. Because Nintendo controlled the production of all cartridges, it was able to enforce strict rules on its third-party developers, which were required to sign a contract by Nintendo that would obligate these parties to develop exclusively for the system, order at least 10,000 cartridges, and only make five games per year.[51] GameSpy noted that these "iron-clad terms" made Nintendo many enemies during the 1980s. Some developers tried to get around the five game limit by creating additional company brands like Konami's Ultra Games label, others tried going around the 10NES chip (see below).[2]


lots of this is what ruin gameing in the 1st place. the only ones who did not like those rules was the ones who suck at making good games
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#22_FalstaffPosted 2/9/2013 4:58:06 PM
I read the whole post, but none of it makes sense in the context of today. The NES/SNES was 20+ years ago. If a developer is holding a grudge from over 20 years ago, a grudge that would have to be carried on by several sets of employees across time, they need to grow up and get over themselves.
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#23mini_blightPosted 2/9/2013 5:30:33 PM
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...


THIRD PARTIES KILLED THE ATARI.


that's another way of putting it lol. but damn I loved my Atari 5200, river raid was the bomb.


Well, it's true. They did kill it. In fact, you could argue that many of them tried to do that to the Wii. The only flaw came from Nintendo still releasing its own quality games for its owners to focus on. The same games that get branded as trash by Nintendo's enemies.

Atari didn't have that luxury to save them from the massive shovelware pileup that killed the market at the time.

That said, I won't deny that Nintendo was strict. I also won't deny they had enemies looking for any excuse to get rid of them. But I can at least understand why they had those policies.

The limit also prevented any single third party from dominating the store shelves by shear volume alone. That meant you had more of a fair shot as a competing third party.

The limit also meant there would be less potential shovel ware to compete with.

See, there are pros to what Nintendo did there. But those are ignored in favor of the cons because that makes it easier for the trolls, marketers, etc., to attack Nintendo.
#24diggyfreshPosted 2/9/2013 5:32:32 PM
mini_blight posted...
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...


THIRD PARTIES KILLED THE ATARI.


that's another way of putting it lol. but damn I loved my Atari 5200, river raid was the bomb.


Atari didn't have that luxury to save them from the massive shovelware pileup that killed the market at the time.



good thing the wii didn't bring on shovelware.
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Currently playing: ZombiU, RE: Revelation, & Xenoblade
#25AceMosPosted 2/9/2013 6:22:39 PM
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...


THIRD PARTIES KILLED THE ATARI.


that's another way of putting it lol. but damn I loved my Atari 5200, river raid was the bomb.


Atari didn't have that luxury to save them from the massive shovelware pileup that killed the market at the time.



good thing the PS2 did bring on shovelware.


fixed for ya
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#26mini_blightPosted 2/9/2013 6:24:16 PM
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...


THIRD PARTIES KILLED THE ATARI.


that's another way of putting it lol. but damn I loved my Atari 5200, river raid was the bomb.


Atari didn't have that luxury to save them from the massive shovelware pileup that killed the market at the time.



good thing the wii didn't bring on shovelware.


*insert Nintenhate*

It did. The difference is Atari didn't have the first party efforts to counter it.
#27ThaPrinceRazielPosted 2/9/2013 6:58:32 PM
mini_blight posted...
private400 posted...
These strict licensing measures backfired somewhat after Nintendo was accused of antitrust behavior.[52] The United States Department of Justice and several states began probing Nintendo's questionable business practices, leading to the involvement of Congress and the Federal Trade Commission. The FTC conducted an extensive investigation which included interviewing hundreds of retailers. As the FTC probe concluded


Concluded without finding a smoking gun. What a shock!

Nintendo quietly changed the terms of its publisher licensing agreements to eliminate the two-year rule and other particularly draconian terms.


If it was so quiet, then how come everyone knew they did it? Framing it like that is very telling. Yes, they "quietly" changed the terms. Right before they murdered a few people to keep it quiet. lmao

Nintendo and the FTC settled the case in April 1991, with Nintendo required to send vouchers giving a $5 discount off to a new game, to every person that had purchased a NES title between June 1988 and December 1990. GameSpy remarked that Nintendo's punishment was particularly weak giving the case's findings, although it has been speculated that the FTC did not want to damage the video game industry in the United States.[3]


It was weak because what Nintendo was accused of doing was in itself weak. Do you honestly think Nintendo would have gotten away the kind of **** Microsoft has gotten away with for decades? lol

On top of that, nintendo was not above inventing "chip shortages" to create artificial scarcity to promote their own games. This happened with zelda II and mario II.


Wrong. They didn't need a shortage to promote anything. The original Zelda and Super Mario Bros were the biggest, and best selling NES games at the time. The shortage only kneecapped their sequels sales potential.

Yes, Sony was a breath of fresh air alright. A breath of fresh bribery and lofty promises that mostly never came true. A breath of fresh air that was allowed to get away with things Nintendo would have been destroyed for.


Wait. So Nintendo controlled how much developers would have to pay to survive, how much copies they could make, and flat out told them they couldn't port the game anywhere else. While Sony PAYED developers to keep their games on their console? I don't know man, comparing those and saying Sony is worst.... Thank God for Sony! (I know you're not gonna like me saying that, but oh well)
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#28diggyfreshPosted 2/9/2013 7:00:29 PM
mini_blight posted...
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...
diggyfresh posted...
mini_blight posted...


THIRD PARTIES KILLED THE ATARI.


that's another way of putting it lol. but damn I loved my Atari 5200, river raid was the bomb.


Atari didn't have that luxury to save them from the massive shovelware pileup that killed the market at the time.



good thing the wii didn't bring on shovelware.


*insert Nintenhate*

It did. The difference is Atari didn't have the first party efforts to counter it.


Please explain. What do you mean about countering?
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Currently playing: ZombiU, RE: Revelation, & Xenoblade
#29BkzUziPosted 2/9/2013 7:02:24 PM(edited)
iKhanic posted...
Part of the whole point of the GC was to become more open with 3rd Parties. Nintendo realized that that hurt them on the N64, so they changed it, and the GC had fairly good 3rd party support.

Then the Wii lost it all because it wasn't HD and had an unconventional control scheme.


Game Cube's third part support was pathetic compared to the PS2.
It got curbstomped so badly.
#30diggyfreshPosted 2/9/2013 7:04:51 PM
BkzUzi posted...
iKhanic posted...
Part of the whole point of the GC was to become more open with 3rd Parties. Nintendo realized that that hurt them on the N64, so they changed it, and the GC had fairly good 3rd party support.

Then the Wii lost it all because it wasn't HD and had an unconventional control scheme.


Game Cube's third part support was pathetic compared to the PS2.
It got curbstomped so badly.


that and GC had those tiny disks. how was a dev supposed to make a game for GC and port it if it was limited to those things?
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Currently playing: ZombiU, RE: Revelation, & Xenoblade