Nintendo should use Bioshock Infinite to learn how to make better games.

#1AdamLazarusoPosted 3/30/2013 7:48:10 AM
I completed Bioshock Infinite last night - outstanding game, very deserving of the review scores it got.

There are a few things about it that I think are very lacking in Nintendo games and that I think Nintendo could look at as an example of how to improve their own games.

1) Innovation in gameplay. The thing that surprised me most about Bioshock Infinite is how much they had improved the gameplay over Bioshock. They added actual new gameplay elements that greatly changed (and improved) the way you play the game without removing the Bioshock feel. Nintendo have tried this with things such as FLUDD and becoming a wolf before but they only felt like gimmicks that would never fit in with their particular series outside of that particular game. I feel like I'll be disappointed if you can't still do things like open up tears or ride skylines (or an equivalent) in the next Bioshock game while I never found myself playing Twilight Princess thinking "man, I'm going to miss not being able to be a wolf in the next game".

2) Characters. This has always been one of the biggest flaws in Nintendo games - the lack of any interesting characters. Link and Samus are both mute, Mario might as well be, and the villains are all pretty one dimensional 'I want to rule the world!!!' types. Bioshock Infinite had the conflicted Booker with the mysterious past, the intelligent but naive Elizabeth, the mysterious Lutece twins, the charismatic Comstock. The game has a great cast and I would like to see Nintendo put more effort into creating interesting characters in their games in the future.

3) Settings. Columbia felt like a living breathing world. It gave you a reason to want to find out more about the city and its history (by collecting Voxophones) and to explore your surroundings. Nintendo has never created a game world that feels even close to as authentic and interesting as Columbia - the closest thing I can even think of is Castle Town in Twilight Princess and that wasn't that great.

4) Story. Not a lot to say here other than that Bioshock Infinite had an excellent story and most Nintendo games don't. I'm fine with this in games like Mario where a story isn't needed at all, but in games like Zelda they really need to step it up beyond "Ganondorf is doing some evil stuff, find some magical stones to stop him".

5) Storytelling. This is a big one and an area in which games like Bioshock Infinite really shine and Nintendo games really don't. It wasn't just that the story was great in Bioshock Infinite, it was the way in which it was told from the minor details (revealed through Voxophones, Kinetoscopes and posters) to the big reveals. I won't go into anything too specific for the sake of avoiding spoilers but there's one scene involving Elizabeth in the future in which the lighting alone creates a huge atmospheric reveal. I can't think of anything like that in a Nintendo game and it's about time they started to get a lot more ambitious with how they tell their stories.


What are your thoughts on this, Wii U board? Should Nintendo look to other games (such as Bioshock Infinite) in order to see where they can improve their own games?
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We should make a verbal agreement to only kiss each other.
#2Baha05Posted 3/30/2013 7:49:21 AM
Developers in general could take a lesson from this game, not just Nintendo.
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"I think there will be a price drop at the latest by E3. I'd even bet my account on it." Icecreamdunwich on the Wii U
#3ADHDguitarPosted 3/30/2013 7:50:52 AM
Why is it that every time a good game comes people can only whine about Nintendo not doing things like that?
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Still waiting for Diddy Kong Racing 2
#4andrea987Posted 3/30/2013 7:55:30 AM
How many hours did it take you to finish it?
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Now playing: Dragon's Dogma, Ni no Kuni, Need for Speed MWU, Fifa 13, Sonic Racing.
Just finished: Batman ACAE, Trine 2 DC.
#5Baha05Posted 3/30/2013 7:55:47 AM
ADHDguitar posted...
Why is it that every time a good game comes people can only whine about Nintendo not doing things like that?


Because people are really damn stupid and things that every game needs to be as good or better then x game. I mean I can get behind Bioshock Infinite being a great game (Picked it up on Thursday, beat it yesterday without upgrading everything so I'm now attempting Hard mode) but honestly singling out one company? Really? If you are going to make a claim like this pretty much all companies could learn from this game or any highly praised games.
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"I think there will be a price drop at the latest by E3. I'd even bet my account on it." Icecreamdunwich on the Wii U
#6AdamLazaruso(Topic Creator)Posted 3/30/2013 7:59:48 AM
andrea987 posted...
How many hours did it take you to finish it?


Seven.

Baha05 posted...
ADHDguitar posted...
Why is it that every time a good game comes people can only whine about Nintendo not doing things like that?


Because people are really damn stupid and things that every game needs to be as good or better then x game. I mean I can get behind Bioshock Infinite being a great game (Picked it up on Thursday, beat it yesterday without upgrading everything so I'm now attempting Hard mode) but honestly singling out one company? Really? If you are going to make a claim like this pretty much all companies could learn from this game or any highly praised games.


I'm 'singling out' Nintendo because I think they in particular don't do a lot of things that Bioshock Infinite did so well.

I thought there were a lot of things that could have been improved in Tomb Raider too but I haven't picked that out because I don't think Bioshock is a particularly good game to highlight what Tomb Raider does wrong.

Bioshock Infinite is a good game to highlight what Nintendo do wrong though.
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We should make a verbal agreement to only kiss each other.
#7dancing_cactuarPosted 3/30/2013 8:03:16 AM
Baha05 posted...
Developers in general could take a lesson from this game, not just Nintendo.
#8DarkAdonis123Posted 3/30/2013 8:04:46 AM
Baha05 posted...
Developers in general could take a lesson from this game, not just Nintendo.


This
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If Platinum was HAND drawn, she'd be on paper, fool. This is a video game. They just made her on screen, no "drawing" involved -Delano7 on BlazBlue
#9Baha05Posted 3/30/2013 8:04:55 AM
AdamLazaruso posted...

I'm 'singling out' Nintendo because I think they in particular don't do a lot of things that Bioshock Infinite did so well.

I thought there were a lot of things that could have been improved in Tomb Raider too but I haven't picked that out because I don't think Bioshock is a particularly good game to highlight what Tomb Raider does wrong.

Bioshock Infinite is a good game to highlight what Nintendo do wrong though.


Except you really can't just make that comparison. What Bioshock Infinite does is what the game itself does. Almost all games do these things to some degree. But as soon as you single out one company it shows bias. The only logical comparison is to point out all companies, almost all games as these issue are not just issues on Nintendo's part.
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"I think there will be a price drop at the latest by E3. I'd even bet my account on it." Icecreamdunwich on the Wii U
#10AdamLazaruso(Topic Creator)Posted 3/30/2013 8:11:07 AM
Baha05 posted...
AdamLazaruso posted...

I'm 'singling out' Nintendo because I think they in particular don't do a lot of things that Bioshock Infinite did so well.

I thought there were a lot of things that could have been improved in Tomb Raider too but I haven't picked that out because I don't think Bioshock is a particularly good game to highlight what Tomb Raider does wrong.

Bioshock Infinite is a good game to highlight what Nintendo do wrong though.


Except you really can't just make that comparison. What Bioshock Infinite does is what the game itself does. Almost all games do these things to some degree. But as soon as you single out one company it shows bias. The only logical comparison is to point out all companies, almost all games as these issue are not just issues on Nintendo's part.


I can make that comparison, and I am.

I don't hold a game like Tomb Raider up against Bioshock Infinite because the best things about Bioshock Infinite are its atmopshere and storytelling and all that and I think Tomb Raider is also good for its atmosphere and storytelling and all that but is let down by other areas. It wouldn't be sensible to say 'Crystal Dynamics can learn from Bioshock Infinite' because there are other games that could better address the specific flaws in Tomb Raider than Bioshock Infinite.

Nintendo games on the other hand are let down by their atmosphere and storytelling and all that and so they should look to a game that has excellent atmosphere and storytelling and all that as an example of how they can improve the specific flaws in their games.

Of course Nintendo aren't the only company who could take suggestions from Bioshock Infinite but they're the company whose games I would like to discuss. If you'd rather be a giant pedant than actually talk about these games then that's up to you.
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We should make a verbal agreement to only kiss each other.