I wonder if there will be an achievement/trophy system?

#41meiyukiPosted 4/5/2013 2:16:53 PM(edited)
Sez6 posted...
meiyuki posted...
you are so biased toward your own position you cannot even see the counter point to the argument

I have a whole host of reasons for not liking achievements


If anyone who have take a side is biased, so you are too. If it's possible to be objetive even with being in one side, then I could be objetive too.

"I have a whole host of reasons for liking achievements"

1 achiev can change my gameplay in a good way.
1 achiev won't change your gameplay in any way.


I can tell you can't really speak english well, simply put you do not understand at all what I'm saying. You have proceeded to do exactly the same thing you said you wern't going to do in the very post which indicates you do not understand what's being said or the purpose of my examples.

Unfortunately, and far to many people never seem to get this, just because you cannot personally see something does not mean it is not there.

edit: further evidence,


Because it feels different Meiyuki.

If we play monopoly I like to play with the rules. If we start with 3 dices and 10x times money I loose any interest in the game because it turns out as a joke.


Oh but it's not different to change the rules so that every 5 minutes a bell rings and someone says "yay you learned how to roll the dice, congratulations." And then the game is changes to shoehorn in these bell rings that don't fit at all. See you just assume that because you like something it's the "right way" and everyone else is wrong and there's no defense against your subjective opinions. You want to tell everyone to just deal with want you want but are so biased you can't see how others might not like that.
#42Sez6Posted 4/5/2013 2:23:23 PM(edited)
meiyuki posted...

Unfortunately, and far to many people never seem to get this, just because you cannot personally see something does not mean it is not there.


If many people fails to catch your idea, maybe the problem is yourself. You could try using another examples or being more patient and explaining with more details.

And you don't even try to understand gamers who follow achievs. One proof is that you still think that one developer achiev is the same as one personal one.

And it shouldnt be too hard to just accept that for some people it matters the way the "challenges" are created.

meiyuki posted...

Oh but it's not different to change the rules so that every 5 minutes a bell rings and someone says "yay you learned how to roll the dice, congratulations." And then the game is changes to shoehorn in these bell rings that don't fit at all.


I said it would be a nice idea the ability to disable trophies/achievs for people who don't like, like you.

meiyuki posted...
See you just assume that because you like something it's the "right way".


Maybe is my bad english like you pointed out in your previous post. I always used the terms "I" "myself" "for me". Obviously my way IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY, because there is not a right way to play a game. Everybody can play it in the way they like. But I like to play in some ways, and the other ways are not fun FOR ME. And all I want is not that you like my way, it's just to understand that i'm not a fool because i don't play like you want.

Please be patient, remember that everybody outside english countries learn english in very different ways.
#43meiyukiPosted 4/5/2013 2:30:31 PM
Sez6 posted...

And you don't even try to understand gamers who follow achievs. One proof is that you still think that one developer achiev is the same as one personal one.


Yes I do understand them just fine, I have never once stated that I don't see or understand their point of view. You think this either because of your bias or your inability to understand english. I have not once said, like yourself, that the other side has no justification for their position, or that lacking what they want doesn't affect them in any way. You are the one who cannot understand the other side and yet you insist on projecting your own deficiencies resulting in you putting words in people's mouths.

From the beginning my point was how you were just totally dismissing everyone else. I have no problem with someone saying "I like and want X." What I don't like is when people are so biased they say "I like and want X and anyone who doesn't has no justification for not liking what I like." Which is exactly what your original argument was. That's why I gave the example in the reverse to demonstrate exactly what you were doing and it continues to just fly over your head.

When I make the argument in reverse all the sudden you have all kinds of problems with what I said, but you can't seem to see any tiny problem with your own statements even though my example was base entirely on your statement just reversed.
#44Sez6Posted 4/5/2013 2:54:13 PM
meiyuki posted...
Sez6 posted...

And you don't even try to understand gamers who follow achievs. One proof is that you still think that one developer achiev is the same as one personal one.


Yes I do understand them just fine, I have never once stated that I don't see or understand their point of view. You think this either because of your bias or your inability to understand english. I have not once said, like yourself, that the other side has no justification for their position, or that lacking what they want doesn't affect them in any way. You are the one who cannot understand the other side and yet you insist on projecting your own deficiencies resulting in you putting words in people's mouths.

From the beginning my point was how you were just totally dismissing everyone else. I have no problem with someone saying "I like and want X." What I don't like is when people are so biased they say "I like and want X and anyone who doesn't has no justification for not liking what I like." Which is exactly what your original argument was. That's why I gave the example in the reverse to demonstrate exactly what you were doing and it continues to just fly over your head.

When I make the argument in reverse all the sudden you have all kinds of problems with what I said, but you can't seem to see any tiny problem with your own statements even though my example was base entirely on your statement just reversed.


I understand now what are you saying. The main issue is that in some situations there are just 2 options, A or B, and you can only choose 1 because both are mutually exclusive.

I'm not dismissing people who dont like option A, but obviously I would do it to the people who choose B. Why? because if B is selected, then I will loose my option A. So obviously i will go to say that A is better than B and I will enlist the reasons.

People who wants "A" cares more about "A" than people who doesnt want "A" cares about having "A".When this happens, the best possible option is to select "A". because the benefits outweight the costs.

And I refer to comments like the next one that takes an open position against achievs:
IloveElite posted...
I've posted on the xbox part of these forums many times saying that Achievements are the worse thing to come to gaming in the past 30 years and they need to be banned.
#45IloveElitePosted 4/5/2013 2:56:51 PM
kjingofthehill_ posted...
I love trophies. They dont influence me to which games to buy just because theyre easy. But I would never buy a 3rd party game I want in a console without achievements if I can get the same game on another console with achievements.


Wow, amazing how shallow todays gamers are.

How the hell would you all cope with early 1980's games? no achievements, no cheats, no saving your game!! lol
#46GEKGanonPosted 4/5/2013 3:05:43 PM
What is this nonsense about? If developers want to put them into the games, they can. They don't seem to be doing so, but they do have the option. Hell, Nintendo Land has achievements. Er... "stamps".

So what is this about? Clearly, the reality of the situation is that people that say they care about the achievements are really just meaning to say they care about the recognition.
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#47Don_ZaloogyPosted 4/9/2013 3:24:14 PM
IloveElite posted...
PLEASE NO!!

Achievements/Trophies are pointless and useless and they only serve to reward crap games when tots and teens buy crap games JUST because their achievements are easy.

Insanity.. please, we don't want them.


I beg to differ.

A great example of hard to earn trophies are Dead Space 2 and/or Dead Space 3. In Dead Space 2 Hardcore mode, you have to finish the game SAVING 3 times only, ammo, health are scare and enemies will kill you in you don't take measures when playing, when i finished it, i felt amazing, not just for finishing the game in the hardest difficulty (because it is really hard), but because at the end, after dying from your last save and starting again, you get a trophy acknowledging that you beat the hardest difficulty.

In dead space 3, hardcore mode, you can't save, there are checkpoints if you want to rest, turn off your system and keep playing later, but dead is PERMANENT, it was such a great experience playing the entire game in this difficulty, that you actually feel good when you finish it.

Now that little achievement/trophy motivate people to play in this difficulties, so you can show off to your friends that you did it and they didn't. Having trophies/achievements create a non hostile competitive experience, however, i don't like when trophies unlock when you finish a level, because i was going to do that anyway, so what is the point, but as someone suggested, clearing the level without getting hit and with a minimum quantity of shots done or killing a certain boss without using health packs does add an extra challenge that players are looking forward to. These kind of trophies/achievements add to the overall experience.

Granted trophies/achievements are not for everyone, i do respect those who oppose to this system, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i do believe that the trophy/achievement system attract people, whether those people are just trying to get them all for satisfaction or because they feel that their lives depend on, is a different conversation, but for those players that are a bit above of the average player (like myself) that system is not only to show off but it is rewarding as well, it shows how much patience and perseverance you had, and those values should be put into practice in life as well (at least i do).

Now if you are wondering if the PS3 have any games without the trophy system, you should have played MSG4 a few years ago, that's the main reason why i bought a PS3 (never owned a psx/ps2, only Nintendo consoles) that is a great game, with tons of difficulties, in game ranks and now they have patched the game with trophies so if i cleared my Big Boss run, (which isn't easy to get) a long time ago, i will pop out my disc again, and play it (i upgraded my ps3 so i will gladly start over again). I bought MSG4 not because it didn't or did have trophy support, but because the game itself, it's beautiful and that game from 2008 (i think) still outclasses some of the games that had just been released/about to be released.

I didn't buy a WiiU because i heard that the wiiu might have an achievement system, but because i like Nintendo first party games and i really thought that they were going to get more third party support, as they said previously, i would have loved seeing some great games like Borderlands/Borderlands 2 getting a facial lift to the WiiU (improved graphics, etc,etc) and tons of other games but i guess i was wrong, but that argument is for a different topic.

Trophy/achievement support or not, i will play games whether they are for WiiU or PS3/PS4, but personally they make a great difference, specially when said trophy/achievement is hard earned and well placed.

Thanks for reading.
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#48Mathew1986(Topic Creator)Posted 4/11/2013 2:33:00 AM
Don_Zaloogy posted...
IloveElite posted...
PLEASE NO!!

Achievements/Trophies are pointless and useless and they only serve to reward crap games when tots and teens buy crap games JUST because their achievements are easy.

Insanity.. please, we don't want them.


I beg to differ.

A great example of hard to earn trophies are Dead Space 2 and/or Dead Space 3. In Dead Space 2 Hardcore mode, you have to finish the game SAVING 3 times only, ammo, health are scare and enemies will kill you in you don't take measures when playing, when i finished it, i felt amazing, not just for finishing the game in the hardest difficulty (because it is really hard), but because at the end, after dying from your last save and starting again, you get a trophy acknowledging that you beat the hardest difficulty.

In dead space 3, hardcore mode, you can't save, there are checkpoints if you want to rest, turn off your system and keep playing later, but dead is PERMANENT, it was such a great experience playing the entire game in this difficulty, that you actually feel good when you finish it.


I completely agree, I actually worked for that trophy already on Dead Space 2, very rough and challenging. Now you gotta ask yourself, if there wasn't a trophy/achievement for that, a lot of people in the world wouldn't really worry about it, I would though just cause I love doing it just for the challenge. But it motivates a lot of other people if there is a trophy for it, I mean my brother he wouldn't even attempted that if there wasn't a trophy for it lol.
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#49stekim40Posted 4/11/2013 2:55:12 AM
Today's gamers really don't deserve the 'gamer' tag, they are very very shallow and require hand-holding and backslapping every step of the way.

The poster who asked how today's gamers would handle early 80's games is right, they couldn't, they'd break down and cry. :D
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#50DarkAdonis123Posted 4/11/2013 3:55:41 AM
FF_Fiend posted...
Prepare to have a ton of Nintendrones tell you why they hate trophies/achievements and love every decision Nintendo has ever made.

This
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