What exactly is wrong with Metroid Other M? *SPOILERS*

#161Purging_FlamePosted 4/19/2013 5:42:16 AM
KroganBallEater posted...
I don't understand why people want Metroid Other M to be retconned.

Other M's story is crucial to the story of Fusion, and that's one of the best metroid games.
Also it has giant plot points that are basically impossible to retcon.


Other M's story craps all over Fusion and the series as a whole. I'll copy Korval's analysis of this, since it's really staggering how little respect the game has for the other installments in the series.

1. Ruins the ending of Super Metroid by falsely claiming that Samus got the Hyper Beam as the result of the metroid's sacrifice, when in reality the metroid stole the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus when it refilled her health.

2. The whole 'Adam as a father-figure' thing retroactively damages Zero Mission's Chozo flashback cutscene by implying that the ones who raised her meant nothing to her.

3. Samus's monologue about Other M being her first joint GF mission since becoming a bounty hunter contradicts the entire plot of Metroid Prime: Corruption.

4. Turns Metroid Fusion's "Any objections, Lady?" from an endearing phrase signifying Adam's trust in Samus into a horrifying piece of verbal abuse intended to establish mental dominance and control over her.

5. The whole thing about Samus's suit being controlled by her will, which contradicts pretty much every game in the series, particularly Fusion, where scientists had to cut the damn thing off her since it couldn't be removed while she was unconscious.

6. For taking every appearance of Ridley and letting us know that Samus is secretly crying in her suit every time she sees him.

7. Ruins the space pirates by turning the formerly intelligent antagonists into mindless non-sentient drones whenever Ridley / Mother Brain isn't around.

8. Has Samus, destroyer of worlds, defeated by a single shot from a standard issue GF pistol.

9. Has Samus accomplish nothing. Seriously, nothing she ever does makes a slightest difference to the plot. She is de-protagonized in her own game.

10. Completely annihilates the very idea of Adam Malkovich as presented in Fusion, reducing him from a stolid, heroic figure into an abusive, scene-stealing Mary Sue who literally walks off with the final level of the game.

11. Makes it hard to play Fusion again without thinking of Samus and Adam's reunion at the end as the horrific reuniting of an abuse victim with her abuser.

12. Turns Nightmare from Fusion into a crappy attempt to shoehorn more "babies" into this game. Also, great use of his iconic music. In that his boss music in Other M is completely generic and worthless.

13. Ruins the final boss of Metroid II; even better, doing so served absolutely no purpose in this story. It was just an excuse to give you something to kill even if it made no sense whatsoever.

14. The moronic blackmail thing at the end. I don't remember those scientists complaining when Samus gave them the infant metroid at the start of Super metroid.

There was a fifteenth point, but that was related to Other M contradicting itself.
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#162Big_IsaacPosted 4/19/2013 5:58:47 AM
KroganBallEater posted...
Big_Isaac posted...
KroganBallEater posted...
I don't understand why people want Metroid Other M to be retconned.

Other M's story is crucial to the story of Fusion, and that's one of the best metroid games.
Also it has giant plot points that are basically impossible to retcon.

how exactly is this game crucial to Fusion?
if it was to be retconned, there are only 2 things that have to be explained in a future Metroid game
1 Adam's relationship with Samus before his death
2 how Ridley got on the BSL

that's literally it


Exactly, why would they want to retcon those two pretty big moments?

adam's death was a huge moment in both other m and Samus' character in the remainder of Other M and through out Fusion

and you know how Metroid fans are, they always need an explanation on how Ridley keeps coming back.

the topic has a spoiler tag in the title, so there's no need to black stuff out

the circumstances of Adam's death were never important in Fusion. the game told us that he sacrificed himself to save Samus. that's all we needed to know. that's all that's important for Samus' character development in Fusion. anything beyond that is just additional backstory.

as for Ridley:
*Samus reports what happened on the BSL*
Samus: btw, the hell was Ridley doing on the station?
GF guy: oh, right, Ridley. you see, he was the last of his kind, so we thought it was kind of a waste when he blew up together with Zebes. to study his species more, we cloned him on the BSL, but he became too hard to control, so we had to put him in the freezer for the time being. and then the X happened

there you bloody go
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Waiting for golden Sun 3DS
2 things are infinite: The Universe and human stupidity. I'm not sure about the Universe, though -Albert Einstein
#163Hawke0Posted 4/19/2013 11:06:39 AM
Purging_Flame posted...
KroganBallEater posted...
I don't understand why people want Metroid Other M to be retconned.

Other M's story is crucial to the story of Fusion, and that's one of the best metroid games.
Also it has giant plot points that are basically impossible to retcon.


Other M's story craps all over Fusion and the series as a whole. I'll copy Korval's analysis of this, since it's really staggering how little respect the game has for the other installments in the series.

1. Ruins the ending of Super Metroid by falsely claiming that Samus got the Hyper Beam as the result of the metroid's sacrifice, when in reality the metroid stole the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus when it refilled her health.

2. The whole 'Adam as a father-figure' thing retroactively damages Zero Mission's Chozo flashback cutscene by implying that the ones who raised her meant nothing to her.

3. Samus's monologue about Other M being her first joint GF mission since becoming a bounty hunter contradicts the entire plot of Metroid Prime: Corruption.

4. Turns Metroid Fusion's "Any objections, Lady?" from an endearing phrase signifying Adam's trust in Samus into a horrifying piece of verbal abuse intended to establish mental dominance and control over her.

5. The whole thing about Samus's suit being controlled by her will, which contradicts pretty much every game in the series, particularly Fusion, where scientists had to cut the damn thing off her since it couldn't be removed while she was unconscious.

6. For taking every appearance of Ridley and letting us know that Samus is secretly crying in her suit every time she sees him.

7. Ruins the space pirates by turning the formerly intelligent antagonists into mindless non-sentient drones whenever Ridley / Mother Brain isn't around.

8. Has Samus, destroyer of worlds, defeated by a single shot from a standard issue GF pistol.

9. Has Samus accomplish nothing. Seriously, nothing she ever does makes a slightest difference to the plot. She is de-protagonized in her own game.

10. Completely annihilates the very idea of Adam Malkovich as presented in Fusion, reducing him from a stolid, heroic figure into an abusive, scene-stealing Mary Sue who literally walks off with the final level of the game.

11. Makes it hard to play Fusion again without thinking of Samus and Adam's reunion at the end as the horrific reuniting of an abuse victim with her abuser.

12. Turns Nightmare from Fusion into a crappy attempt to shoehorn more "babies" into this game. Also, great use of his iconic music. In that his boss music in Other M is completely generic and worthless.

13. Ruins the final boss of Metroid II; even better, doing so served absolutely no purpose in this story. It was just an excuse to give you something to kill even if it made no sense whatsoever.

14. The moronic blackmail thing at the end. I don't remember those scientists complaining when Samus gave them the infant metroid at the start of Super metroid.

There was a fifteenth point, but that was related to Other M contradicting itself.


10/10
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"Saying Metroid Other M is better than the Prime Trilogy because you hate shooters is like saying Aliens:CM is better than FF7 because you hate RPGs.
#164jillwarrenPosted 4/19/2013 11:15:25 AM
Purging_Flame posted...
KroganBallEater posted...
I don't understand why people want Metroid Other M to be retconned.

Other M's story is crucial to the story of Fusion, and that's one of the best metroid games.
Also it has giant plot points that are basically impossible to retcon.


Other M's story craps all over Fusion and the series as a whole. I'll copy Korval's analysis of this, since it's really staggering how little respect the game has for the other installments in the series.

1. Ruins the ending of Super Metroid by falsely claiming that Samus got the Hyper Beam as the result of the metroid's sacrifice, when in reality the metroid stole the Hyper Beam from Mother Brain and gave it to Samus when it refilled her health.

2. The whole 'Adam as a father-figure' thing retroactively damages Zero Mission's Chozo flashback cutscene by implying that the ones who raised her meant nothing to her.

3. Samus's monologue about Other M being her first joint GF mission since becoming a bounty hunter contradicts the entire plot of Metroid Prime: Corruption.

4. Turns Metroid Fusion's "Any objections, Lady?" from an endearing phrase signifying Adam's trust in Samus into a horrifying piece of verbal abuse intended to establish mental dominance and control over her.

5. The whole thing about Samus's suit being controlled by her will, which contradicts pretty much every game in the series, particularly Fusion, where scientists had to cut the damn thing off her since it couldn't be removed while she was unconscious.

6. For taking every appearance of Ridley and letting us know that Samus is secretly crying in her suit every time she sees him.

7. Ruins the space pirates by turning the formerly intelligent antagonists into mindless non-sentient drones whenever Ridley / Mother Brain isn't around.

8. Has Samus, destroyer of worlds, defeated by a single shot from a standard issue GF pistol.

9. Has Samus accomplish nothing. Seriously, nothing she ever does makes a slightest difference to the plot. She is de-protagonized in her own game.

10. Completely annihilates the very idea of Adam Malkovich as presented in Fusion, reducing him from a stolid, heroic figure into an abusive, scene-stealing Mary Sue who literally walks off with the final level of the game.

11. Makes it hard to play Fusion again without thinking of Samus and Adam's reunion at the end as the horrific reuniting of an abuse victim with her abuser.

12. Turns Nightmare from Fusion into a crappy attempt to shoehorn more "babies" into this game. Also, great use of his iconic music. In that his boss music in Other M is completely generic and worthless.

13. Ruins the final boss of Metroid II; even better, doing so served absolutely no purpose in this story. It was just an excuse to give you something to kill even if it made no sense whatsoever.

14. The moronic blackmail thing at the end. I don't remember those scientists complaining when Samus gave them the infant metroid at the start of Super metroid.

There was a fifteenth point, but that was related to Other M contradicting itself.


I'll just address two points: the idea that having a person as a father figure somehow implies that you don't care about people who helped raise you is fallacy and just reaching for something to complain about.

The argument that this game demonstrated an abusive relationship between Samus and Adam is both ignorant about what a real abusive relationship is, and insulting to people who truly suffer from it.

It's cool that you don't like the game, but these kinds of criticism are beyond reaching.
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NN: peteywarren PSN: peteywarren0829
I give God all glory. Just so you know, I am a guy; my wife picked this username.
#165BuretsuPosted 4/19/2013 11:20:32 AM
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
@Buretsu
She doesn't close the eyes of a soldier, she merely kneels down and looks at him.


No, she reaches into the hole in his helmet and closes his eyes.

Saving the animals was a coincidence and it happened again in Fusion,


Have you played Super Metroid? You literally have to go out of your way to rescue the animals and only if you do will you see them escape from the exploding planet. It was not a coincidence, it was a deliberate act.

and the Baby Metroid is still whined about just because they depicted it in Other M.


Yes, because they went from "Samus performing an act of mercy" to "OHGOD IT'S A BABY I WANT A BABY SO MUCH I WANT ADAM TO PUT A BABY IN ME".

The whole thing about her being an "emotionless killing machine" was that she never talked or did anything. She just stood there. Didn't react, or anything much like many of Nintendo's earlier mascots.


Because of limits of technology in older games. You are aware that personality can be shown in ways that are not delivering a lengthy monologue in a uniformly dull monotone?

The difference between her and a character such as Link, is that Samus is an actual developed character, especially now. She isn't just a medium for the player to visualize themself as.


Exactly. So I don't get why you're saying that she had no personality before.
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no i tried resetting game i even start violent slamming cartridge on wall but all it does make static noise when i put into DS, the problem not fix! -ReconUnit
#166exodus2020Posted 4/19/2013 11:31:23 AM
All i know is that is pretty much ruined the Metroid series for us, and led Nintendo to believe that its "not a good idea" to make any more metroid games or sequels. "Fans" were overall way to "picky" "closeminded" and refused to buy the game, returned it almost instantly, and just jumped on the "hate Metroid its cool!!" bandwagon. Therefore, no support for the developers.. no more Metroid. bye bye Metroid, you were loved.
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-Videogames are interactive books, therefore, videogames > books.
#167Big_IsaacPosted 4/19/2013 12:01:53 PM
jillwarren posted...
I'll just address two points: the idea that having a person as a father figure somehow implies that you don't care about people who helped raise you is fallacy and just reaching for something to complain about.

Chozo: saved her life, raised her, trained her. they don't get a single mention anywhere in the entire game
Adam: some guy she served under for a time. calls him out as her father figure
this does very strongly imply that she feels little to nothing for the chozo

The argument that this game demonstrated an abusive relationship between Samus and Adam is both ignorant about what a real abusive relationship is, and insulting to people who truly suffer from it.

this was entirely unintentional, of course, but if you read between the lines, the game does portray their relationship as horrible and abusive.
here's a nice example:

"Any objections, lady?"
we get a flashback to a briefing, where Adam drops this question as a pathetic out-of-context call-forward to Fusion.
why is this horrible? well, how many of the soldiers in front of him does he ask this question? one. only Samus. he feels the need to specifically ask her and ONLY her whether she understood the orders. this wouldn't be so bad by itself if Adam just thought Samus was an idiot, but it gets worse. he doesn't even ask her by name. he decides to ask her by gender. it's not "any objections, Aran?" but "any objections, lady?"
now, I'm not finished. moments earlier, Samus says that Adam is not one to joke around, but that he WAS indeed joking when he called her lady.
in other words, he was making fun of her by calling out the fact that she is a woman

this alone would already get you in a lot of trouble in a real-life military, but it gets even worse. how? Samus' thumbs down.
she says that this was an act of rebellion. i.e. she did not like being called out specifically like that, but she was powerless to do anything about it. that token gesture was literally the only thing she could do.
it's such an impotent act of rebellion that even the other soldiers can only laugh at her.
her entire squad is making fun of her, and her so-called father figure is enforcing it.

again, I agree that all of this was most likely completely unintentional, but that's what you get when you read a little between the lines.
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Waiting for golden Sun 3DS
2 things are infinite: The Universe and human stupidity. I'm not sure about the Universe, though -Albert Einstein
#168MBBDarigonPosted 4/19/2013 12:04:36 PM
One of my favorite metroids
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The most interesting man in the world
#169jillwarrenPosted 4/20/2013 2:10:20 PM
Big_Isaac posted...
jillwarren posted...
I'll just address two points: the idea that having a person as a father figure somehow implies that you don't care about people who helped raise you is fallacy and just reaching for something to complain about.

Chozo: saved her life, raised her, trained her. they don't get a single mention anywhere in the entire game
Adam: some guy she served under for a time. calls him out as her father figure
this does very strongly imply that she feels little to nothing for the chozo

The argument that this game demonstrated an abusive relationship between Samus and Adam is both ignorant about what a real abusive relationship is, and insulting to people who truly suffer from it.

this was entirely unintentional, of course, but if you read between the lines, the game does portray their relationship as horrible and abusive.
here's a nice example:

"Any objections, lady?"
we get a flashback to a briefing, where Adam drops this question as a pathetic out-of-context call-forward to Fusion.
why is this horrible? well, how many of the soldiers in front of him does he ask this question? one. only Samus. he feels the need to specifically ask her and ONLY her whether she understood the orders. this wouldn't be so bad by itself if Adam just thought Samus was an idiot, but it gets worse. he doesn't even ask her by name. he decides to ask her by gender. it's not "any objections, Aran?" but "any objections, lady?"
now, I'm not finished. moments earlier, Samus says that Adam is not one to joke around, but that he WAS indeed joking when he called her lady.
in other words, he was making fun of her by calling out the fact that she is a woman

this alone would already get you in a lot of trouble in a real-life military, but it gets even worse. how? Samus' thumbs down.
she says that this was an act of rebellion. i.e. she did not like being called out specifically like that, but she was powerless to do anything about it. that token gesture was literally the only thing she could do.
it's such an impotent act of rebellion that even the other soldiers can only laugh at her.
her entire squad is making fun of her, and her so-called father figure is enforcing it.

again, I agree that all of this was most likely completely unintentional, but that's what you get when you read a little between the lines.


I think you have your problem right there; you are reading between the lines trying to see things that aren't there.

Adam can be important to her too; you aren't required to just look up to one or two people or things in your life. One rude statement is not an example of an abusive relationship; it is an example of a rude statement. I really wonder if you have ever truly known someone in an abusive relationship.
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NN: peteywarren PSN: peteywarren0829
I give God all glory. Just so you know, I am a guy; my wife picked this username.