As much as I hate it, I can't blame 3rd party companies for skipping Wii U

#61DemonDog666Posted 4/21/2013 10:29:06 AM
Shinobi120 posted...
No, it wouldn't, especially when the Wii U would possibly have lower development costs compared to the next Xbox &/or the next Playstation consoles, just like with the Wii Vs. PS3 & 360 in development costs.


You obviously don't understand development costs, more power hardware is cheaper per performance, so if a third party wanted to they could make a wiiU (aka ps3/360) level game on ps4 for less then it would cost on wiiU, and you said so yourself some studios (ones with horrible management who can't budget) are losing money, and wiiU is going to cost more then ps3/360 to develop for especially if they want to compete with ps4/next xbox games.

If they wanted to make a ps3/360 level game they'd make a ps3/360 game, it's the same price and you get 40 times the install base or make a budget game on ps4/next xbox, about the same install base as wiiU only cheaper to make since you don't need to optimize and push the system as much. There is really no reason any developer would need to make a wiiU game because of development budget, since they can make a better game on the next gen systems for less. Really the only reason to develop for wiiU is lack of competition. As for the wii it had pretty much nothing but shovelware and it got that because of it's sales.
#62P_A_N_D_A_M_A_NPosted 4/21/2013 1:00:44 PM
SlimeSwayze posted...
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
So your argument is that a company won't make more money on the Wii U if they actually try to make their games better because it's the Wii U? Okay.


Why would they do that when they can actually try to make their games better on the PS3 and 360, because it's the PS3 and 360, where they will actually get more return on their investments?

When you consider the fact that they are few, if any, advantages that the Wii U hardware has over the other consoles that are already out there, and you look at the sales of third party games thus far, developing for the Wii U is not an attractive proposition. I don't see a single argument that really supports the idea that companies should be devoting any extra time and resources developing on the Wii U. I don't like saying that, but it's just the truth right now. The console has a small install base of people who will primarily buy 1st party titles, the hardware has still yet to prove it can do much more than the consoles that were released nearly a decade ago, and the Gamepad has so far not proven itself to be a game changer that justifies developing games specifically with it in mind.


Why have laws when criminals are just going to break them anyway? Why make new games when people are just going to pirate them? Why create new consoles if people are just going to keep trying to hack them?

Do you see the flawed logic? You see that something is new and needs an install base. So, instead of garnering attention to bring in new customers, you would rather create a shoddy product that nobody wants because there isn't an install base, then complain about not making money because their isn't an install base!

Now, falling back into the cycle I posted earlier, they decide to continue development on consoles they are losing money on because there is an install base. Nintendo then releases good games and creates an install base. Third parties then complain that their products aren't performing as well as Nintendo's which were created to be good enough to gather an install base!

Don't make shoddy products and your things have a far greater chance at selling. If you just say "there's no point" there won't ever be a point.
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#63sonic777Posted 4/21/2013 1:09:16 PM
WraithX_959 posted...
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
*Nintendo gives Third Parties a chance to shine, BUT FORCES AN UNNECESSARY HANDICAP ON THEM*
*Third Parties blame Nintendo for intentionally gimping them*
*Nintendo releases big games to increase console sales*
*Third Parties complain that they can't compete with Nintendo's sales*

Rinse, and repeat.


This and it's been this way since the N64.


N64 - carts = handicap
GCN - minidiscs = handicap
Wii - Motion Control, lack of HD = Handicap
WiiU - unfinished dev kits (for launch games), forced second screen content = handicap



Yeah, totally the developer is 100% to blame.
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#64godplaysSNESPosted 4/21/2013 1:11:53 PM
Lack of "HD" wasn't really a handicap for the Wii. The handicap was an overall lack of horsepower
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#65P_A_N_D_A_M_A_NPosted 4/21/2013 1:26:28 PM
You aren't forced to use the second screen.
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#66DemonDog666Posted 4/21/2013 1:30:50 PM
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
Why have laws when criminals are just going to break them anyway? Why make new games when people are just going to pirate them? Why create new consoles if people are just going to keep trying to hack them?

Do you see the flawed logic? You see that something is new and needs an install base. So, instead of garnering attention to bring in new customers, you would rather create a shoddy product that nobody wants because there isn't an install base, then complain about not making money because their isn't an install base!

Now, falling back into the cycle I posted earlier, they decide to continue development on consoles they are losing money on because there is an install base. Nintendo then releases good games and creates an install base. Third parties then complain that their products aren't performing as well as Nintendo's which were created to be good enough to gather an install base!

Don't make shoddy products and your things have a far greater chance at selling. If you just say "there's no point" there won't ever be a point.


Problem with that is all the reasons to develop for wiiU instead of ps4/next are better reasons to develop on ps3/360 and all the reasons to develop for wiiU instead of ps3/360 are better reasons to develop for ps4/next xbox.
#67squatch22Posted 4/21/2013 1:31:49 PM
DemonDog666 posted...
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
Why have laws when criminals are just going to break them anyway? Why make new games when people are just going to pirate them? Why create new consoles if people are just going to keep trying to hack them?

Do you see the flawed logic? You see that something is new and needs an install base. So, instead of garnering attention to bring in new customers, you would rather create a shoddy product that nobody wants because there isn't an install base, then complain about not making money because their isn't an install base!

Now, falling back into the cycle I posted earlier, they decide to continue development on consoles they are losing money on because there is an install base. Nintendo then releases good games and creates an install base. Third parties then complain that their products aren't performing as well as Nintendo's which were created to be good enough to gather an install base!

Don't make shoddy products and your things have a far greater chance at selling. If you just say "there's no point" there won't ever be a point.


Problem with that is all the reasons to develop for wiiU instead of ps4/next are better reasons to develop on ps3/360 and all the reasons to develop for wiiU instead of ps3/360 are better reasons to develop for ps4/next xbox.


PS4 specs
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/246/ps4specs.jpg

PS3 GPU: 1.8 tflops
PS4 GPU: 1.84 Tflops

Source: GamesTM Magazine May 2013 issue.
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#68FayeLadyPosted 4/21/2013 9:34:43 PM
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
So your argument is that a company won't make more money on the Wii U if they actually try to make their games better because it's the Wii U? Okay.


Its reasonable to believe a better product would earn more money. Its also reasonable to believe a better product will cost more money to make. Thats the issue. If a company has little reason to think pouring more money into a product will make them more money in the endgame the why would they do it?
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#69SlimeSwayzePosted 4/21/2013 10:24:54 PM
P_A_N_D_A_M_A_N posted...
Why have laws when criminals are just going to break them anyway? Why make new games when people are just going to pirate them? Why create new consoles if people are just going to keep trying to hack them?

Do you see the flawed logic? You see that something is new and needs an install base. So, instead of garnering attention to bring in new customers, you would rather create a shoddy product that nobody wants because there isn't an install base, then complain about not making money because their isn't an install base!

Now, falling back into the cycle I posted earlier, they decide to continue development on consoles they are losing money on because there is an install base. Nintendo then releases good games and creates an install base. Third parties then complain that their products aren't performing as well as Nintendo's which were created to be good enough to gather an install base!

Don't make shoddy products and your things have a far greater chance at selling. If you just say "there's no point" there won't ever be a point.


I don't think most of that applies. There is an undeniable history of devs making an effort on Nintendo consoles and not getting much, if anything, for their efforts. This goes back to at least the GCN, which consistently sold less copies of third party titles. Add the fact that the Wii U offers very little that the other current consoles don't already offer in terms of features and tech (again, the Gamepad has not yet proven to be a real benefit to gameplay) and we're back to asking the question: why bother? Why go out of your way to make a game for a Nintendo console when you can do just fine making it for PC/360/PS3? And once the new consoles arrive, if they are even marginally successful, there will be even less reason to make a game on the Wii U.

Nintendo did not do enough to make their console attractive to devs, or consumers, and third parties shouldn't have to pay for Nintendo's mistakes. Obviously, it's not too late for Nintendo to turn things around and hopefully increase their install base, but even then, if multiplatform and non-Nintendo published games continue to sell poorly, then the Wii U will simply be another Nintendo console that basically exists just to play Nintendo games.

And people keep mentioning "bad products". There are lots of great third party games that have sold like garbage on Nintendo consoles, and that includes the Wii U.
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#70ElectricMolePosted 4/21/2013 10:31:36 PM
Is Travelers Tales Games satisfied with Lego City sales?
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