I'm REALLY not digging the Wii U's Virtual Console.

#31Neo_HeartlessPosted 5/10/2013 1:13:42 AM
EvilBeards posted...
TalentedM posted...
ajko000 posted...

I don't even want to hear someone calling it immoral or illegal, because that simply means they too are ignorant to the situation.


Well one of those things is a fact, one is opinion and one is what your post is. I will let you wrack your brain about which is which.


I'm guessing you're the one who reported me? Nevertheless, why would you despise emulation? It's free, it's better, and it's legal.

Tell me, what is your knowledge of programming?


Oh boy here we go. Look, emulation isn't legal, it's just... can you imagine the magnitiude of the task it would be to try and go after everyone who distributed or played Roms? They can't even be bothered doing it for people who pirate new games because they can't prove it, so Roms are a no go, but that doesn't mean they're free.

Companies still own the rights to these games, and when they choose to rerelease them they can do so at a pricepoint they choose. We might not agree with it, but that's just how it works. What you are doing looks an awful lot like justification, and that annoys me, because it implies you feel guilty about what you are doing. If you have to make yourself feel better for downloading a rom, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Anyway, back on topic. Yeah the VC is crap, that's the jist of it. They should be releasing more games more quickly and they should try and release ones for different consoles as well. I'd even settle for 3 a week if they were 3 different games for 3 different consoles.
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#32EvilBeardsPosted 5/10/2013 1:16:39 AM
From Wikipedia...
As computers and global computer networks continued to advance and emulator developers grew more skilled in their work, the length of time between the commercial release of a console and its successful emulation began to shrink. Fifth generation consoles such as the Nintendo 64, the Sony PlayStation and sixth generation handhelds, such as the Game Boy Advance, saw significant progress toward emulation during their production. This led to an effort by console manufacturers to stop unofficial emulation, but consistent failures such as Sega v. Accolade 977 F.2d 1510 (9th Cir. 1992), Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. v. Connectix Corporation 203 F.3d 596 (2000), and Sony Computer Entertainment America v. Bleem 214 F.3d 1022 (2000)[1], have had the opposite effect. According to all legal precedents, emulation is legal within the United States. However, unauthorized distribution of copyrighted code remains illegal, according to both country specific copyright and international copyright law under the Berne Convention.[2] Obtaining games through methods not authorized by the developer or publisher is illegal in the United States.

Under United States law, obtaining a dumped copy of the original machine's BIOS is legal under the ruling Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) as fair use as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine. However, several emulators for platforms such as Game Boy Advance are capable of running without a BIOS file, using high-level emulation to simulate BIOS subroutines at a slight cost in emulation accuracy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console_emulator


I understand the "Oh eheheheh Wikipedia is unrelibal an is alwayz rongw!" thing, but the article sums it up pretty well, at least in America.
#33EvilBeardsPosted 5/10/2013 1:25:18 AM
Neo_Heartless posted...
EvilBeards posted...
TalentedM posted...
ajko000 posted...

I don't even want to hear someone calling it immoral or illegal, because that simply means they too are ignorant to the situation.


Well one of those things is a fact, one is opinion and one is what your post is. I will let you wrack your brain about which is which.


I'm guessing you're the one who reported me? Nevertheless, why would you despise emulation? It's free, it's better, and it's legal.

Tell me, what is your knowledge of programming?


Oh boy here we go. Look, emulation isn't legal, it's just... can you imagine the magnitiude of the task it would be to try and go after everyone who distributed or played Roms? They can't even be bothered doing it for people who pirate new games because they can't prove it, so Roms are a no go, but that doesn't mean they're free.

Companies still own the rights to these games, and when they choose to rerelease them they can do so at a pricepoint they choose. We might not agree with it, but that's just how it works. What you are doing looks an awful lot like justification, and that annoys me, because it implies you feel guilty about what you are doing. If you have to make yourself feel better for downloading a rom, you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Anyway, back on topic. Yeah the VC is crap, that's the jist of it. They should be releasing more games more quickly and they should try and release ones for different consoles as well. I'd even settle for 3 a week if they were 3 different games for 3 different consoles.


If they don't want to defend their content, then they are responsible for letting it out by unwanted means. You see in the business world, NOBODY CARES! If this were the middle ages, and people decided to not guard their castle, then find out all of their food was stolen in the dead of night, would you honestly be surprised?

Astounding Consistency: Those who try and bash emulation simply don't have a computer capable of emulating, and or they don't have the mental capacity to learn how to do it properly and legally.

Sure, downloading things is easier, but it's illegal. If you port your OWN copy and DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE it for OTHER PEOPLE, it's fine. It's the same logic when you backup your DVD's and such, you're not redistributing them, you're keeping them in case your first disc breaks.
#34Neo_HeartlessPosted 5/10/2013 1:34:30 AM
EvilBeards posted...

If they don't want to defend their content, then they are responsible for letting it out by unwanted means. You see in the business world, NOBODY CARES! If this were the middle ages, and people decided to not guard their castle, then find out all of their food was stolen in the dead of night, would you honestly be surprised?

Astounding Consistency: Those who try and bash emulation simply don't have a computer capable of emulating, and or they don't have the mental capacity to learn how to do it properly and legally.

Sure, downloading things is easier, but it's illegal. If you port your OWN copy and DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE it for OTHER PEOPLE, it's fine. It's the same logic when you backup your DVD's and such, you're not redistributing them, you're keeping them in case your first disc breaks.


I think I swallowed some straw from your argument there. It's not that they don't care, it's that it's not feasable from them to pursue everyone related to roms. It would cost more than the company could ever afford.

And now you're also changing the subject? We've gone from download roms to make your own roms! This is legal, yes, but it requires specialized equipment for older games that isn't always readily available. Why are you so upset that companies are providing people a means to download old games they may not have owned? Because you think it should be free if you already own the game? Well tough, it doesn't work like that. Tell me did you kick up this fuss when we moved from VHS to DVD? Or did you buy a converter so you could watch VHS quality DVDs?
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#35EvilBeardsPosted 5/10/2013 1:39:44 AM
Neo_Heartless posted...
EvilBeards posted...

If they don't want to defend their content, then they are responsible for letting it out by unwanted means. You see in the business world, NOBODY CARES! If this were the middle ages, and people decided to not guard their castle, then find out all of their food was stolen in the dead of night, would you honestly be surprised?

Astounding Consistency: Those who try and bash emulation simply don't have a computer capable of emulating, and or they don't have the mental capacity to learn how to do it properly and legally.

Sure, downloading things is easier, but it's illegal. If you port your OWN copy and DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE it for OTHER PEOPLE, it's fine. It's the same logic when you backup your DVD's and such, you're not redistributing them, you're keeping them in case your first disc breaks.


I think I swallowed some straw from your argument there. It's not that they don't care, it's that it's not feasable from them to pursue everyone related to roms. It would cost more than the company could ever afford.

And now you're also changing the subject? We've gone from download roms to make your own roms! This is legal, yes, but it requires specialized equipment for older games that isn't always readily available. Why are you so upset that companies are providing people a means to download old games they may not have owned? Because you think it should be free if you already own the game? Well tough, it doesn't work like that. Tell me did you kick up this fuss when we moved from VHS to DVD? Or did you buy a converter so you could watch VHS quality DVDs?


When did I change the subject? I never said to download anything, I never encouraged illegal activity. I've always used my own games. I never once said anything about doing anything illegal, I said to simply emulate. See that's the thing, this forum treats that word like acid, because they're scared of what they do not know.

Actually no, I was happy to jump to DVD, because I'm not technologically ignorant.
#36Tino_Tonitini2Posted 5/10/2013 2:09:35 AM(edited)
Vyers posted...
If THAT wasn't enough, they aren't even releasing based on demand. Xevious and Solomon's Key are good, but no one asked for them - at least, not compared to the demand for A Link to the Past and Super Metroid.


For what it's worth, North America gets Super Metroid next week and for a ridiculously cheap 30 cents. Granted, this alone doesn't compensate for all of the frustrating shortcomings of the Wii U Virtual Console (about which I essentially agree with you). However, I think this topic needs a silver lining, no matter how slight it is.

If you already knew about this, you have my apologies in advance.
#37TalentedMPosted 5/10/2013 2:13:51 AM(edited)
You would still be in the same boat as those who don't have the power to make their own. If you don't own a copy of Super Metroid or have the power to accuire one physically and then copy it yourself as a backup then you must purchase it. And purchasing the copy from lets say Ebay will cost you anywhere from 30-50 $ducketts$.

So if you wanted to spend that much on a game to copy it over for yourself to have a rom for your PC while the physical copy rots away, you can do so. But for most the $8 purchase to have it to play whenever they want seems like a pretty good deal even if you don't physically have anything to show for it. You have a game you couldn't otherwise accuire (legally) and play it right then without the need of old systems.

Emulation sure is a way if you felt like it was necessary to preserve your copies of games and play them on a PC (for some reason) if you do it legally and felt like getting the equipment necessary (around $100 to get the device that can do it for you) and have a library worth doing it for.

Either way, I would assume that most people would be in the position to just get the game for a few dollars and skip out on McDonalds and eat a PB&J sandwich instead.
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