what Zelda need 3

#1omniryuPosted 5/14/2013 6:21:30 PM(edited)
Dungeons and items!
A couple months back, EA said he wanted to change the structure of what order we go into dungeons. Now that is awesome, but lame. Let me tell you why. Take a look at any free roaming game. The original Legend of Zelda and fall out are good example. Almost every dungeon or underworld have a limited design. The reason why I say it limit is because the design is required for a player to access it at any point in time of their play through.

Let's play out a scenario. Imagine Nintendo promise you can go into any dungeon you wanted to in Skyward Sword. How would you be able to access ,let say lanaryu, part of the desert with out the hookshot? You can't because it is in a previous dungeon.

The best solution is to design the overworld and sub dungeons to allow all the items to be in them and have each main dungeon void of new item, except for key item. Simple as that. Majority of dungeons has puzzle that need item from an earlier dungeon to progress forward. You know if you skip the forest dungeon (from almost any game) you won't be able to progress in other dungeon you want to see prior. And you can't take out the item-puzzle element out or else the dungeons will be uninteresting and flat, like the original Zelda or Fall out's subways.

Want to to go the 6 level? Find what you need in the overworld or the sub-dungeon and go.
Chance are you know it might be the bow for bow and arrow based puzzle and enemy elements. Never have to reach the third, fourth, or fifth dungeon.
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#2omniryu(Topic Creator)Posted 5/14/2013 7:21:18 PM
Bump
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PSN ID: Omniryu; Skype: Ryan.cox43
Gamertag: Omniryu
#3Warmonger222Posted 5/14/2013 8:26:56 PM
I didnt understand a word.
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#4miliniumeyePosted 5/14/2013 8:28:10 PM
Warmonger222 posted...
I didnt understand a word.
#5FlyinTonitePosted 5/14/2013 8:32:48 PM
oh dear.

i prefer linear zelda games myself, the next zelda game just needs a bigger overworld with more to do.
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#6AkaneJonesPosted 5/14/2013 11:04:21 PM
I kind of get what you are saying but there are different categories of items in Zelda. Some of the item are required to reach location others are used strictly for fights and and of puzzle solving.

I actually did a run down of Zelda 1 the other day, the gist was you are free to access Level 1 - 3. Level's 4-6 where supposed to require items, namely you need to raft to get to level 4 and you need the ladder to complete levels 5 & 6. Level 7 required that you get the whistle for 5. Level 8 may have intended to require the Red Candle but, blue candle still works. However that dungeon is an aberration as you need the bow, to fully complete it(even though not the triforce or Magic Book) and you can make use for the magic book without the Magic Wand. The point is it's not as open as people think it is.

In fact once you get to the Adult section of Ocarina of Time you have the same freedom and can do Forest, Fire , & Water Temples first(the only issue being one eye switch in the Water Temple that bars completion, as afar as I'm aware).

It's true that some items work this way but it's possible to design the game around which items are need to world navigation. Items like the Hookshot fall into this, Ladders, Rafts, Power Brackets, Magic Mirrors, Bombs, Lanterns, Roc's Feathers, Flippers, are types of of items that tend to be used that way.

But then it comes to things like the Bow, Fire Rod, Gust Jar, even the old boomerang they are making a conscious decision to place puzzles that require those items to use to restrict the player. This lead to an entirely different question, why do they try and make the games so linear? Why not consider the option of player having other ways in, even if harder.

Issue only come if you can get into a dungeon that require a item you don't have yet, but it lead the question of how far can you get on the dungeon. If you could reach the dungeon treasure without it then you might not need restrict the player in the first place.
That of course means they should think of dungeons differently.
#7omniryu(Topic Creator)Posted 5/16/2013 7:30:42 PM
AkaneJones posted...
I kind of get what you are saying but there are different categories of items in Zelda. Some of the item are required to reach location others are used strictly for fights and and of puzzle solving.

I actually did a run down of Zelda 1 the other day, the gist was you are free to access Level 1 - 3. Level's 4-6 where supposed to require items, namely you need to raft to get to level 4 and you need the ladder to complete levels 5 & 6. Level 7 required that you get the whistle for 5. Level 8 may have intended to require the Red Candle but, blue candle still works. However that dungeon is an aberration as you need the bow, to fully complete it(even though not the triforce or Magic Book) and you can make use for the magic book without the Magic Wand. The point is it's not as open as people think it is.

In fact once you get to the Adult section of Ocarina of Time you have the same freedom and can do Forest, Fire , & Water Temples first(the only issue being one eye switch in the Water Temple that bars completion, as afar as I'm aware).

It's true that some items work this way but it's possible to design the game around which items are need to world navigation. Items like the Hookshot fall into this, Ladders, Rafts, Power Brackets, Magic Mirrors, Bombs, Lanterns, Roc's Feathers, Flippers, are types of of items that tend to be used that way.

But then it comes to things like the Bow, Fire Rod, Gust Jar, even the old boomerang they are making a conscious decision to place puzzles that require those items to use to restrict the player. This lead to an entirely different question, why do they try and make the games so linear? Why not consider the option of player having other ways in, even if harder.

Issue only come if you can get into a dungeon that require a item you don't have yet, but it lead the question of how far can you get on the dungeon. If you could reach the dungeon treasure without it then you might not need restrict the player in the first place.
That of course means they should think of dungeons differently.


Which is why I said every item should be place in the overworld or in a mini dungeon where it can be accessed anytime through the whole play through.
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#8AkaneJonesPosted 5/16/2013 8:32:16 PM
omniryu posted...


Which is why I said every item should be place in the overworld or in a mini dungeon where it can be accessed anytime through the whole play through.


And I'm saying there's no point in placing items that are battle specific rather than terrain traversing in the overworld. Hookshot & Iron boots sure, but Magic Wand & Boomerang not so much.