Do you think Other M will end up none canonical?

#71VootuuPosted 6/29/2013 1:59:49 PM
TallWhiteNinja posted...
Vootuu posted...
I know this is off topic, but is this game worth buying now that it's so cheap?


Depends how attached you are to the rest of the series. In and of itself it's a simplistic but somewhat fun action game with a REALLY bad plot and a few odd, awkward moments (the "where's Waldo" sequences, for example), and it's certainly not the worst game ever made.

Compared to the rest of the series, it's canon-shattering dogcrap.


So that means that it contains no important plot points for the future of the series? If so, I'm not touching it.
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#72Yo_Yo_CheesePosted 6/29/2013 2:22:33 PM
Vootuu posted...
So that means that it contains no important plot points for the future of the series? If so, I'm not touching it.


Technically (and unfortunately) it does. It's a prequel to Fusion and meant to tell the story of who Adam was and how he died. It's just, in addition to being horribly, horribly written, Other M retcons the Prime games out of existence, forgets that Samus was raised by Chozo, alters the endings of both Metroid II and Super Metroid, and retroactively makes Samus look like an idiot in Fusion during the scene where she finds out about the Metroid Breeding Project all just to try and make the rest of the series fit with this game's trainwreck of a plot.
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#73Pre_PHD_LeePosted 6/29/2013 2:28:00 PM
Yo_Yo_Cheese posted...
You don't know what I would give to have Other M retconned from existence and replaced with a new, good game about how Adam died.

And I know it's already been posted twice in this topic already, but if anyone wants to defend Other M, please read this review! I understand that it's a lengthy read and there's nothing wrong with having an opinion different from mine, but this really does explain everything wrong with Other M's godawful plot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13373817520I68020100&p=2


Since it was brought up a few times, I actually decided to read the article. It doesn't really talk much about the actual game, but is more or less an editorial criticizing of the opening introduction, and the mother theme of the game. It's a difficult article for me to ready. Many of his criticism are nitpicks and detracting from his main points.But even his main points are based heavily on points that he claims are "implicit" in Super Metroid.

Super Metroid was very artful in the way it told its story. There is a minimum of narration and dialogue. The bulk of the story is conveyed by visual interaction between 2-dimensional sprites and suitable background sound. It is a masterpiece in its execution. But one effect of the presentation (and one that arguably adds to artistic value of the game) is that many of the details are up to the player's interpretation. Different players will come off playing the game with different impressions of Samus' character and her relationship with the Metroid larva.

Now I have been a Metroid fan since the first game was brand new in the 80's, and have played all of the early games many times over. I thought that the stoic, yet compassionate way she was depicted in Other M was very consistent with what I had pictured based on the early games. I thought that her feelings about the Metroid larva were very consistent with Metroid II and Super Metroid. Like many, I was put off by her reaction to Ridley. But aside from that, I thought they did a good job with the character. At the same time, I can very much understand why many of you feel differently, because your impressions in earlier games were probably different than mine.

As for the topic of canon, you'll be hard pressed to find any long running series, be it video game or otherwise, where everything in the canon is self consistent. Fans will always find a way to justify discrepancies, but the real truth is that this series has not had a consistent canon since Metroid Prime was released years ago.
#74VootuuPosted 6/29/2013 2:42:46 PM
Yo_Yo_Cheese posted...
Vootuu posted...
So that means that it contains no important plot points for the future of the series? If so, I'm not touching it.


Technically (and unfortunately) it does. It's a prequel to Fusion and meant to tell the story of who Adam was and how he died. It's just, in addition to being horribly, horribly written, Other M retcons the Prime games out of existence, forgets that Samus was raised by Chozo, alters the endings of both Metroid II and Super Metroid, and retroactively makes Samus look like an idiot in Fusion during the scene where she finds out about the Metroid Breeding Project all just to try and make the rest of the series fit with this game's trainwreck of a plot.


Thanks for the info. If it does this to the canon, then I'll just stop avoiding spoilers and go watch a LP or something. It already sounded like the type of game I would hate (over cinematic) but this kinda puts the last nail in the coffin.
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If all else fails, flip a table.
#75MumboJPosted 6/29/2013 2:57:23 PM(edited)
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
Yo_Yo_Cheese posted...
You don't know what I would give to have Other M retconned from existence and replaced with a new, good game about how Adam died.

And I know it's already been posted twice in this topic already, but if anyone wants to defend Other M, please read this review! I understand that it's a lengthy read and there's nothing wrong with having an opinion different from mine, but this really does explain everything wrong with Other M's godawful plot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13373817520I68020100&p=2


Since it was brought up a few times, I actually decided to read the article. It doesn't really talk much about the actual game, but is more or less an editorial criticizing of the opening introduction, and the mother theme of the game.


He gave a poor URL. Here's the rest of the "dissertation."

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_index.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100

It's actually very well considered and insightful (and kind of funny). Like Red Letter Media insightful. But with less pizza rolls and serial killery.
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#76wiiking96Posted 6/29/2013 3:06:17 PM
Pre_PHD_Lee posted...
Since it was brought up a few times, I actually decided to read the article. It doesn't really talk much about the actual game, but is more or less an editorial criticizing of the opening introduction, and the mother theme of the game. It's a difficult article for me to ready. Many of his criticism are nitpicks and detracting from his main points.But even his main points are based heavily on points that he claims are "implicit" in Super Metroid.

This makes it sound like you only read the first page, and not the rest of the article.

Super Metroid was very artful in the way it told its story. There is a minimum of narration and dialogue. The bulk of the story is conveyed by visual interaction between 2-dimensional sprites and suitable background sound. It is a masterpiece in its execution. But one effect of the presentation (and one that arguably adds to artistic value of the game) is that many of the details are up to the player's interpretation. Different players will come off playing the game with different impressions of Samus' character and her relationship with the Metroid larva.

There's actually very little that's up to interpretation, at least in terms of the more significant story elements. Here's what we know objectively:
- Samus chose to spare the Metroid Larva.
- Samus stuffed it into a jar and handed it over to the GF without any apparent hesitation.
- She expressed interest in the Metroid Larva as a tool for the benefit of civilization
- She said "Satisfied that all was well . . ." after turning over the Metroid Larva.
- At the end of Super Metroid, it said: "THE OPERATION WAS COMPLETED SUCCESSFULLY".
- Not once outside of Other M does she make even the slightest reference towards it being a being she was emotionally close to.

Based on all this, the only reasonable explanation as why Samus chose to spare the Metroid Larva is out of the thought that maybe letting the GF take a look at a harmless Metroid would be better than merely wiping it out.

Here' what Samus monologues in Super Metroid:

I next fought the Metroids on their home world, SR388. I completely eradicated
them except for a larva, which after followed me like a confused child...
I personally delivered it to the Galactic Research Station at Ceres so
scientists could study its energy producing qualities...

The scientists' findings were astounding! They discovered that the powers of
the Metroid might be harnessed for the good of civilization!

Satisfied that all was well, I left the station to seek a new bounty to hunt,
but I had hardly gone beyond the asteroid belt when I picked up a distress
signal!
Ceres Station was under attack!

Note the bolded parts.
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More villains need to be protagonists. BIS proves it can work.
Ridley, Ganondorf, Fawful, Bowser, and Dimentio all for their own games!
#77wiiking96Posted 6/29/2013 3:14:45 PM(edited)
Now I have been a Metroid fan since the first game was brand new in the 80's, and have played all of the early games many times over. I thought that the stoic, yet compassionate way she was depicted in Other M was very consistent with what I had pictured based on the early games. I thought that her feelings about the Metroid larva were very consistent with Metroid II and Super Metroid. Like many, I was put off by her reaction to Ridley. But aside from that, I thought they did a good job with the character. At the same time, I can very much understand why many of you feel differently, because your impressions in earlier games were probably different than mine.

Quick question: Have you played Metroid Fusion? She was personified in that game more than in any other.

As for the topic of canon, you'll be hard pressed to find any long running series, be it video game or otherwise, where everything in the canon is self consistent. Fans will always find a way to justify discrepancies, but the real truth is that this series has not had a consistent canon since Metroid Prime was released years ago.

This is completely untrue. The Prime games fit into the timeline just fine.
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More villains need to be protagonists. BIS proves it can work.
Ridley, Ganondorf, Fawful, Bowser, and Dimentio all for their own games!
#78SoaringDivePosted 6/29/2013 3:22:54 PM(edited)
I have a problem with everything but her reaction to Ridley. Ignoring the Prime games, up until Other M she had only faced Ridley two other times: Zero Mission and Metroid 3. The manga states that Samus had a PTSD breakdown seeing Ridley in Zero Mission, and we have no clue how she reacted in Metroid 3 (we assume she just went in and beat him up, but her reaction could have just been skipped as stopping for it would break the pace of the game, which was more important).

I mean, it makes sense that she'd freak out when the thing that killed her entire planet in front of her become resurrected... It speaks more about Samus' tragic past than her character.
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#79MumboJPosted 6/29/2013 3:55:02 PM(edited)
SoaringDive posted...
I have a problem with everything but her reaction to Ridley. Ignoring the Prime games, up until Other M she had only faced Ridley two other times: Zero Mission and Metroid 3. The manga states that Samus had a PTSD breakdown seeing Ridley in Zero Mission, and we have no clue how she reacted in Metroid 3 (we assume she just went in and beat him up, but her reaction could have just been skipped as stopping for it would break the pace of the game, which was more important).

I mean, it makes sense that she'd freak out when the thing that killed her entire planet in front of her become resurrected... It speaks more about Samus' tragic past than her character.


Wow. Appropriate. I just finished the sections on this issue in that link, and you pretty much followed the exact same route as the B side of the hypothetical conversation the guy poses.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13378783280I83340200&p=8
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13378783790I03420200&p=9 (the conversation is here)

Seriously, people should give this a read, even if it is a little long. It's possibly the best critique of Other M (writing and storywise) I've ever seen.
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Et earello, endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan, ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!
#80AiddonPosted 6/29/2013 4:00:39 PM
DarkSaber2k posted...

Do I REALLY need to point out that in Aliens she was armed to the teeth and that in ALien 3 she barely had even harsh language to use against it? And in the original Alien, no she wasn't bad ass. She spent most the film trying to escape the alien, not fight it. Bad comparison.


And even in Aliens she only took up arms in the last twenty minutes. Seriously, I'm surprised she didn't blow her face off when she was skulking around with an assault rifle she barely knew how to use. Though I guess we CAN truly associate Ripley with Samus as they're both iconic female characters who are mistakenly believed to be badasses when in fact they're HIGHLY damaged individuals with enough angst to make an episode of Evangelion look pedestrian by comparison.