To those saying that the Wii U will succeed based on the 3DS' bounceback...

#11MwulfPosted 7/1/2013 3:52:27 AM
From: Vyers | #001
The 3DS doesn't have as much trouble as the Wii U does.
1. The 3DS is using dated visuals, relative to the entire industry. They've already made games like these, whereas HD games are (or were) an unknown to them.

This doesn't make any sense. Learn how to construct a coherent thought and get back to me. But regarding your first statement, you are correct. Which is why people are comparing the WiiU to the 3DS' first year post-launch instead of, you know, how the 3DS is doing right now.

2. The 3DS bounced back, in part, because of an unprecedented price drop combined with a "care package".

Maybe. Or maybe it was the fact that Nintendo suddenly started regularly releasing a string of high-quality titles for the platform, with at least one major release hitting every month? I don't know about you, but I have a feeling most gamers buy gaming platforms for, you know, GAMES.

3. The 3DS is still struggling in the US.

If you say so. Last I checked, it was doing pretty damn well, especially compared to the competition.

4. The 3DS has exactly one fewer company to compete with - two, if you consider that the Vita can't compete.

Actually, the 3DS had a lot more competition from a lot more devices and companies. The portable gaming market is far more fractionalized than the home console gaming market.

There's simply too many different things going on here.

The 3DS is actually more similar to the WiiU than any other platform in the history of gaming, making it not only a very appropriate platform of comparison, but also THE most appropriate platform for comparison.

Congratulations, you've failed to make even a single point.
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#12Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 7/1/2013 4:12:41 AM
Well, Mwulf, let me go down your post.

For one, I'm a little confused how a fairly simple post could be so lost on you. Was it the quite-clear statement that the 3DS used dated visuals relative to the Wii U, which featured a level of power that Nintendo had yet to work with before, leading to a game drought? If so, you may be a little bit under the age to have signed up, if you are so chronically unable to grasp fairly simple statements.

That being said, comparing the 3DS to the Wii U is like comparing the Game Boy Color to the N64. One was successful, one was unsuccessful, and it's because one did the right things, and one did the wrong things. If the Wii U Game Pad turns out to be something consumers don't care about, then Nintendo... has a fairly expensive accessory that no one will care about? This is different from the 3D functionality, which can be ignored. It's not a big hunk of plastic.

The comparison also fails to acknowledge that for developers who want to make games for dedicated handhelds, 3DS is the best option. Sales are not hard to achieve, and even as they are, they are much harder on the VITA, unless you're aiming at a specialized market. The Wii U doesn't have that. Because of some rather arrogant decisions made by Nintendo with how to release the Wii U - more expensive than it should be, few proofs of concept for the Wii U Game Pad, released before they had a grasp on the visual technologies the Wii U offered - it isn't a safe place for third parties. So much so that EA, one of the more Nintendo friendly companies, isn't making anything for the platform. So much so that it scared Ubisoft into delaying Rayman Legends in order to avoid it bombing. These are not problems that the 3DS faces, so at what point does "Nintendo turned the 3DS around" have any bearing here?

As for sales, must I bold this statement for those who are too unwilling to learn? The 3DS' US competition consists of two new, very unsuccessful platforms and five other platforms that range from approximately seven to nine years of age. That isn't a success. Of course it's outselling the Xbox 360 and PS3, two platforms that have been on the market since 2005 and 6 respectively. Of course it's outselling the Wii, DS, and PSP, which have all been phased out by their successors. And is it really successful to be winning against the other two new consoles less because of your sales, and more because of theirs?

Going back to my third party statement, the reason why 3DS has fewer competitors is because the 3DS has no direct, viable competitors. The Wii U, however, will have two competitors that are competing directly with it, in every respect. They're both going to try and take games from it, and they're going to try to get people to buy their console instead of Nintendo's.

And finally, to address this idea you have in the second to the last line, curious - at what point does a completely different atmosphere for third parties make things the same? At what point does the Wii U STILL having too close a price to its competitor make things the same? At what point does the fact that the PS4 looks to be a much more threatening competitor to Wii U than the VITA was to the 3DS make things the same?

Seriously, it must be hard to understand those variables when you're too busy admiring how great Nintendo is.
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#13ShankspearePosted 7/1/2013 4:27:15 AM
Vyers posted...
Allow me to address the common responses.

1. The comparison... did it occur to you that there's a reason why they didn't gripe about having to delay games due to the difficulty found in implementing 3D visuals, yet said exactly that for HD with the Wii U?

2. Price drop - the price drop raised their reception back up. No one wanted a $250 machine with no games.

3. I think people really need to reassess what they define as a success. The statements being made are that the 3DS is a success because it's the #1. console on the market. Let's look at this market.

The 360 has been out for eight years.
The PS3 for seven.
The Wii for seven.
The PSP for eight.
The DS for nine.
The VITA is doing poorly.
The Wii U is doing poorly.

So what makes it a success - that it beats a couple poor performers, or that it beats out all of those consoles that are being/have already been phased out?




If the 3ds is struggling now. All the concerns about consoles failing should be levied at Microsoft and Sony who only recently began selling well and at a profit (within the last couple of years). So your logic is very inconsistent.

You'd be hard pressed to find any industry people that would agree with your assessment of the 3ds, especially beginning in q1 of this year when they are selling the thing at a profit per unit.
#14guttertalkPosted 7/1/2013 5:43:52 AM
You've yet to offer any evidence that the 3DS is struggling, TC. If you don't like sales compared to other systems, then what metric are you using?

FYI, the 3DS is outselling the DS at the point in its life:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/04/18/3ds-sales-1-million-ahead-of-ds-record-in-u-s-3639544/

No one knows if this will continue to hold over the next couple of years, but this is not a struggling platform by any stretch.
#15Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 7/1/2013 6:10:00 AM
Again, I must reiterate that the sales are not high enough in the US based on the fact that it's only barely outselling very old consoles. It should be leading the charge, not fighting for #1.

As for the DS thing, I find it highly... irrelevant? The 3DS was a follow-up to a smash success, and yet, it's only a million past its predecessor in the same amount of time on the market? It also stands to reason that the 3DS would, of course, outsell the DS. The DS had an even worse launch than the 3DS did in terms of sales.
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#16Xenesis XenonPosted 7/1/2013 6:12:39 AM
Vyers posted...
Again, I must reiterate that the sales are not high enough in the US based on the fact that it's only barely outselling very old consoles. It should be leading the charge, not fighting for #1.

As for the DS thing, I find it highly... irrelevant? The 3DS was a follow-up to a smash success, and yet, it's only a million past its predecessor in the same amount of time on the market? It also stands to reason that the 3DS would, of course, outsell the DS. The DS had an even worse launch than the 3DS did in terms of sales.


A followup to a "smash success" performing similarly, or better is a "struggling system"?

That's the basic problem people are having with your argument here.
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#17thundercat2600Posted 7/1/2013 6:17:51 AM
GloryChaos posted...
3. The 3DS is still struggling in the US.


If the best selling gaming item in May according to NPD is struggling, then the US gaming industry is doomed. We should pack our bags while we still can and head for greener pastures. Does everybody still have their N-Gage?

As usual, good thread Vyers. This thread is already a success.


It's competition is 2 7-year old consoles, and 2 massive sales flops (Wii U and Vita). Being the best seller isn't exactly saying much.

BTW the Wii U is still selling worse than PS3, 360, Wii, Vita, PSP, and 3DS. Hell, I bet even Ouya outsold it last week LOL.
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#18-NotoriousLynxPosted 7/1/2013 6:18:32 AM
1. The Wii U is as well. Its using slightly better graphics from last gen.

2. The Wii U is likely going to get a price drop as well.

3. No it isn't.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/16/nintendo-3ds-software-sales-up-52-year-on-year-in-us/

4. The xbox one isn't a game console. Its a movie and sports player.
#19supremeblasterPosted 7/1/2013 6:19:19 AM
Vyers posted...
Again, I must reiterate that the sales are not high enough in the US based on the fact that it's only barely outselling very old consoles. It should be leading the charge, not fighting for #1.

As for the DS thing, I find it highly... irrelevant? The 3DS was a follow-up to a smash success, and yet, it's only a million past its predecessor in the same amount of time on the market? It also stands to reason that the 3DS would, of course, outsell the DS. The DS had an even worse launch than the 3DS did in terms of sales.


The PS3 was a follow up to a smash success , and yet, it's only 50-60 million units behind it's predecessor in the same timeframe?

The PSV was a follow up to a smash success as well, and yet, it's 10s of millions behind what the PSP was in the same timeframe?

Come on.
#20Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 7/1/2013 6:22:26 AM
Alright, let's try this again.

The DS is a smash success more or less for the period after the approx. two year mark that article covered. DS sales did not pick up until the DS Lite was released in the US, about 1 and a half years after its launch. Only six months of the DS' stride are covered in that report; most of the time the DS was selling in that period was low sales. It stands to reason that the 3DS could beat the DS at its worst.

As for struggling, again, can ANYONE please explain why I should be impressed with the 3DS leading the charts? Can someone please explain why beating the 360 is a huge achievement? Suggesting that it's not struggling because it's leading sales in this atmosphere is silly. We also can't use any other console besides Wii U and VITA, both which clearly ARE struggling, as a scale, because none of the other consoles are struggling. They're simply dead/dying. The 360 is not selling fewer and fewer consoles because interest is dwindling; it's selling fewer and fewer because there are fewer and fewer people who don't own an Xbox. The same exact thing happened in Japan with the DS.

Finally, the DS is the best-selling hardware ever made. The point of my statement that the 3DS is struggling, is because it is. Why not compare the 3DS' first two years to the DS' two best consecutive years? Because it wouldn't be fair? Frankly, I'd say "hardly". The 3DS was selling to an audience that loved their platform, and instead of people simply not wanting it in the same way that the DS was a hard sell, Nintendo screwed up the marketing and didn't have a good enough lineup ready for launch.
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