To those saying that the Wii U will succeed based on the 3DS' bounceback...

#61ShankspearePosted 7/1/2013 6:55:31 AM
Vyers posted...
BeanBeanKingdom posted...
Alright, I should be fair and bite. You keep being fixated on how the 3DS is selling relative to its competition, yet continuously fail to define how it's "struggling" or the fact that its absolute sales are great. This is a system that sold 32+ million units in one year and a half, without its definite system seller (Pokémon) being available yet. It's only fair to compare its sales to those of the DS in the same time period because the natural life cycle of a system dictates that more units are bought later on when it becomes cheaper and more games are available on it. If you were to compare a system's first year of sales with those of the last few years of its predecessor, then absolutely every system in history would be considered a failure. Even the DS, who struggled during its first year and seemed like it would be unable to ever reach GBA level of popularity, only to become the best-selling gaming system of all time. Reminds you of anything? ... Maybe not, because the 3DS is actually outperforming the DS in the same time period already.


Sigh sigh sigh

The DS' struggles come from a new, radical, risky idea. They come from the PSP, a more viable competitor for DS than the VITA was for 3DS, being released closer to the DS than the VITA was to the 3DS. They come from a poor launch window, and they come from the loss of the Game Boy brand. The 3DS either should not have these problems, ie a poor launch window, or they simply didn't exist, such as a lack of branding. Because the confusion over whether it was a "DS2" and the poor launch window setup existed, Nintendo failed to bring the DS audience with - at least, at first. For this reason, it's not fair to compare the DS to the 3DS. The 3DS had every opportunity to do better than it did given the effort, whereas the DS' success was in spite of everything working against it.


But....BUT.....was there a mobile market to compete against during the height of the DS's success?
#62guttertalkPosted 7/1/2013 6:56:28 AM
In related news: http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251032/nintendo-animal-crossing-increased-3ds-sales-in-us-by-4x/

Games can sell hardware. And most of the time that people have made the 3DS-Wii U comparison, that has been the point. While Vyers and others are right that Nintendo blew the 3DS launch, the hardware has been doing well for a year to get to ~32 units sold in an economy that is down and in a portable market where smart phones and tablets are now selling games well.

Now, is the list of upcoming Wii U games going to sell hardware? That's the crux of the Wii U-3DS comparison.
#63Big_IsaacPosted 7/1/2013 7:08:06 AM
Vyers posted...
Isaac... Isaac Isaac Isaac...

trying to patronize me? please, I'm not the one with the screwed up logic here. condescending crap like this doesn't make your bad points suddenly make sense.

The GameCube was last place.

and it still made a significant profit for Nintendo.

The GameCube harmed Nintendo's irrevocably, and is where the accusations of Nintendo being a kiddy company came from. While the N64 stoked the flames of Nintendo's poor showing as far as third parties go, this was due to technical limitations. The perception of Nintendo consoles being for Nintendo games came about with the GameCube, where even though third party games were perfectly capable of being made for the platform, there wasn't enough of an audience for a lot of them.

so I suppose the Wii was a colossal failure as well. after all, it got Nintendo the casual stigma they are struggling with now.

To mrpants, the PSP is a success because it is the best-selling non-Nintendo handheld console ever made.

and the 3DS is the best-selling handheld (relative to time on the market) period.
also, the PSP didn't outsell the GBA.
GBA: 82 million (7 years on the market)
PSP: 76 million (8 years on the market)

Comparitively, the 3DS is doing worse than it should be for a variety of reasons that generally have to do with Nintendo's arrogance - which is usually the cause of Nintendo's failures.

well how well "should" it do in your opinion? what are you using to evaluate this?
the hardware?
if hardware is an indicator for you, then by all rights it should be crushed to dust by the Vita, so it's doing one hell of a lot better considering it's the exact opposite way.
the weak competition?
well, the competition is weak BECAUSE the 3DS is doing so well
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#64Lwaxana_TroiPosted 7/1/2013 7:21:15 AM
Vyers posted...
The 3DS doesn't have as much trouble as the Wii U does.

1. The 3DS is using dated visuals, relative to the entire industry. They've already made games like these, whereas HD games are (or were) an unknown to them.


Creating HD games is no different than creating SD games. You can even run Wii games in HD on emulators.

2. The 3DS bounced back, in part, because of an unprecedented price drop combined with a "care package".


No, the 3DS "bounced back" because it got Mario and Mario Kart.

3. The 3DS is still struggling in the US.


No, it isn't.

4. The 3DS has exactly one fewer company to compete with - two, if you consider that the Vita can't compete.


1/PS4 aren't competing with Wii U. Nintendo has stated this dozens of time.

PS4/1 offer similar experiences to each other, thus they compete with each other. Neither will be offering the Nintendo games that people purchase Nintendo systems for. Nintendo offers a completely different experience, and isn't considered in competition with other consoles.
#65mrpants_againPosted 7/1/2013 7:24:52 AM
Big Issac just shut down any argument TC can/could make. Kudos to you!

Topic Over.
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#66nonexistingheroPosted 7/1/2013 7:28:00 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#67WildsparkPosted 7/1/2013 7:30:31 AM
Shankspeare posted...
Vyers posted...
BeanBeanKingdom posted...
Alright, I should be fair and bite. You keep being fixated on how the 3DS is selling relative to its competition, yet continuously fail to define how it's "struggling" or the fact that its absolute sales are great. This is a system that sold 32+ million units in one year and a half, without its definite system seller (Pokémon) being available yet. It's only fair to compare its sales to those of the DS in the same time period because the natural life cycle of a system dictates that more units are bought later on when it becomes cheaper and more games are available on it. If you were to compare a system's first year of sales with those of the last few years of its predecessor, then absolutely every system in history would be considered a failure. Even the DS, who struggled during its first year and seemed like it would be unable to ever reach GBA level of popularity, only to become the best-selling gaming system of all time. Reminds you of anything? ... Maybe not, because the 3DS is actually outperforming the DS in the same time period already.


Sigh sigh sigh

The DS' struggles come from a new, radical, risky idea. They come from the PSP, a more viable competitor for DS than the VITA was for 3DS, being released closer to the DS than the VITA was to the 3DS. They come from a poor launch window, and they come from the loss of the Game Boy brand. The 3DS either should not have these problems, ie a poor launch window, or they simply didn't exist, such as a lack of branding. Because the confusion over whether it was a "DS2" and the poor launch window setup existed, Nintendo failed to bring the DS audience with - at least, at first. For this reason, it's not fair to compare the DS to the 3DS. The 3DS had every opportunity to do better than it did given the effort, whereas the DS' success was in spite of everything working against it.


But....BUT.....was there a mobile market to compete against during the height of the DS's success?

There is no competition. Just because someone plays iPhone games doesn't mean that they can't buy consoles.
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#68Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 7/1/2013 7:33:38 AM
Ugh.

Isaac, I shouldn't have to explain to you why a company wouldn't be happy to "just" make a profit off of a product. Relief that it didn't tank them and jubilation are two separate things. GameCube had poor software sales, hardware sales, was forced to price drop rather early, was another in a line of consoles showing Nintendo's descent to (at the time) last place, etc. There are a MULTITUDE of reasons why Nintendo would not call the GameCube a successful product. The comparison you make with the Wii, which did indeed procure short-term profits that did not help them later due to that profit migrating to other kinds of platforms, does not work, because the Wii did have huge software sales. In this millennium, I can only confidently call four consoles a true success: the DS, the PlayStation 2, and the Game Boy Advance. The Wii's profits, as mentioned above, won't help them anymore, and it scared third parties away even more, due to an audience that will buy one game and ignore its superior sequel, as well as technology that forces most third party Wii versions to be made by a different developer, or have its own development cycle. The Xbox and GameCube displayed probably the biggest gap between competition (the PS2) in the console space that I've ever seen since the NES and Sega Master System. The DC was obviously a failure. The PSP, while a huge success for Sony in getting its foot in the handheld door, had too many hang-ups to make it a long-term success. The 3DS was built on arrogance, thinking it could charge $250 without ensuring that it had a strong launch lineup to make it worth that much. VITA and Wii U go without saying, and the PS3, while it finally was able to catch up, was a huge financial loss for Sony. Xbox 360 is kind of riding the fence on this, but the failure rate and losses associated made it miss the mark, in spite of the major advancements it made and the great success it had over its predecessor.

You can't look at things in such a one-dimensional way. Hell, the Genesis was in many ways a failure due to how it affected the Saturn's success.
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#69GeisnPosted 7/1/2013 7:43:55 AM
squatch22 posted...
Top selling system in US =struggling?


Top selling system in the whole world. This topic is ridiculous
#70Vyers(Topic Creator)Posted 7/1/2013 7:45:15 AM
Geisn posted...
squatch22 posted...
Top selling system in US =struggling?


Top selling system in the whole world. This topic is ridiculous


Well, for one, I'm only discussing US. Please read.

For another, the argument of being the top selling system in the US fails because it has no viable competition. Everything is either doing very poorly for their own reasons, or is many years old.
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