So, why is Other M canon and the Prime series not?

#231CrystalKing5426Posted 7/25/2013 5:11:52 PM
pokemega32 posted...
KaiserWarrior posted...
His usage of "parallel" and "gaiden" in various other interviews muddy the waters considerably. The fact that he never outright says that they're part of the same line leans it heavily in one direction.


Gaiden means "side story." What does his usage of that word have to do with anything?

He explicitly said "it's not so much a different universe, it's just a different part of the story."

The sentence about it being parallel makes no sense at all and appears to just be shoddy translation.


They could be considered Gaiden games since they focus on a different plot element (Phazon). That said, the "main" series (and I use the word "main" very loosely) barring Fusion have no real direction or uniqueness to their plots apart from "Objective: kill Metroids", so anything different is fair game.
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Other M is the One More Day of Metroid
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#232pokemega32Posted 7/25/2013 6:11:37 PM
KaiserWarrior posted...
Gaiden is often used to denote spinoffs or 'what if' scenarios.


It's also used often to denote side-stories, which is what it actually means.
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When life gives you melons, you know you're dyslexic.
#233Fang289Posted 7/25/2013 6:54:34 PM
pokemega32 posted...
KaiserWarrior posted...
Gaiden is often used to denote spinoffs or 'what if' scenarios.


It's also used often to denote side-stories, which is what it actually means.


Who cares what it actually means? If Gaiden is used for either spinoff or side-story, then that settles it. Words can take on more than one meaning as time progresses.
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"Sega is what EAin't." ~Crazy_tank51
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#234pokemega32Posted 7/25/2013 7:31:15 PM(edited)
Fang289 posted...
Who cares what it actually means? If Gaiden is used for either spinoff or side-story, then that settles it. Words can take on more than one meaning as time progresses.


Well it's a good thing the word continues to use its intended meaning in the majority of cases then, huh?

In fact, I can't personally even think of any instances in which "gaiden" is used to refer to a non-canon "what if."

He explicitly used the word "side story" and then used another word that generally refers to, and also literally means, side story.

I think that's concrete evidence that he considers the trilogy to be a side story.
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When life gives you melons, you know you're dyslexic.
#235CaptainRandom1Posted 7/25/2013 8:14:45 PM
WHATZITUYA posted...
Doom_Infinite posted...
The Prime games are the only Metroid games I didn't enjoy. I didn't like the change in gameplay but I can see why some would.

I think Nintendo made a wise decision to decanonify Prime, Other M was a lot more fun imo.


Gameplay, that's what decides if it's canon?

Then I guess that means FFVII: Advent Children isn't canon, because it has no gameplay! :D


Honestly I wish they would. The inability to kill off Rufus (who should have been dead anyway), Reno, Tseng, Elena, and Rude really bugged me. I also didn't like Cloud's voice actor or the random plot point of the Sephiroth clone fusing with Jenova's head = Sephiroth. Other than that I really liked the fusion blades.
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#236Nerreltron9000Posted 7/25/2013 8:56:13 PM
CrystalKing5426 posted...


You do realize Prime was far more faithful to the older games, right?


Prime got the atmosphere and exploration closer to Super Metroid, but it completely threw out everything about how Samus moved or controlled.

Other M critics refuse to admit this, but plodding around slowly in 1st person is a world apart from speed boosting and wall jumping through a sidescrolling perspective. There's almost nothing recognizable about Prime's Samus in terms of how you control her and how she moves through the game world.

Not that Retro didn't try or that they didn't do a good job, the perspectives were too different to translate Samus' 2D movements into 1st person without major compromises. Other M managed to carry Samus' character (GAMEPLAY-WISE) into 3D much more faithfully by going 3rd person and using a sidescrolling camera often. There's no contest in terms of which game plays more like Super Metroid, even if Prime feels more like it.

I don't know why Other M haters should care about which games is more faithful anyway, because, by some coincidence, every Other M critic that I've argued with also hates Super Metroid.
#237CaptainRandom1Posted 7/25/2013 9:03:20 PM
Nerreltron9000 posted...
CrystalKing5426 posted...


You do realize Prime was far more faithful to the older games, right?


Prime got the atmosphere and exploration closer to Super Metroid, but it completely threw out everything about how Samus moved or controlled.

Other M critics refuse to admit this, but plodding around slowly in 1st person is a world apart from speed boosting and wall jumping through a sidescrolling perspective. There's almost nothing recognizable about Prime's Samus in terms of how you control her and how she moves through the game world.

Not that Retro didn't try or that they didn't do a good job, the perspectives were too different to translate Samus' 2D movements into 1st person without major compromises. Other M managed to carry Samus' character (GAMEPLAY-WISE) into 3D much more faithfully by going 3rd person and using a sidescrolling camera often. There's no contest in terms of which game plays more like Super Metroid, even if Prime feels more like it.

I don't know why Other M haters should care about which games is more faithful anyway, because, by some coincidence, every Other M critic that I've argued with also hates Super Metroid.


What!?

Part of why we dislike Other M is because of how unfaithful it was to Super Metroid.
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3DS FC 4253-3597-1691
#238Fang289Posted 7/25/2013 9:15:01 PM
CaptainRandom1 posted...
Nerreltron9000 posted...
CrystalKing5426 posted...


You do realize Prime was far more faithful to the older games, right?


Prime got the atmosphere and exploration closer to Super Metroid, but it completely threw out everything about how Samus moved or controlled.

Other M critics refuse to admit this, but plodding around slowly in 1st person is a world apart from speed boosting and wall jumping through a sidescrolling perspective. There's almost nothing recognizable about Prime's Samus in terms of how you control her and how she moves through the game world.

Not that Retro didn't try or that they didn't do a good job, the perspectives were too different to translate Samus' 2D movements into 1st person without major compromises. Other M managed to carry Samus' character (GAMEPLAY-WISE) into 3D much more faithfully by going 3rd person and using a sidescrolling camera often. There's no contest in terms of which game plays more like Super Metroid, even if Prime feels more like it.

I don't know why Other M haters should care about which games is more faithful anyway, because, by some coincidence, every Other M critic that I've argued with also hates Super Metroid.


What!?

Part of why we dislike Other M is because of how unfaithful it was to Super Metroid.


Agreed. Level design is as big a part of gameplay as anything else, and Other M's level design was horrid and linear. Also, Super Metroid did not have a mediocre combat system like Other M has. The ONLY thing that could be considered faithful to Super Metroid was the speed of how Samus moved. These are some of the very few things that could be properly considered "faithful" to Super Metroid.
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"Sega is what EAin't." ~Crazy_tank51
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#239Nerreltron9000Posted 7/25/2013 10:05:12 PM
Fang289 posted...


... Level design is as big a part of gameplay as anything else, and Other M's level design was horrid and linear. Also, Super Metroid did not have a mediocre combat system like Other M has. The ONLY thing that could be considered faithful to Super Metroid was the speed of how Samus moved. These are some of the very few things that could be properly considered "faithful" to Super Metroid.



I fully agree that the Prime world is laid out in a more faithful way, but I was never talking about linearity, just the basic mechanics of how the player controls Samus.

It's not just the speed Samus moves with either, the extra agility changes the pace of the exploration and fighting and allows the game to have much more vertical platforming.


I don't think the combat is horrid at all, that seems like a big overreaction to me. The auto aim is easy to adjust to and feels similar to the simple direction-based shooting in the old games, the dodge makes combat faster and does require some skill (random presses will get you killed in the Phantoon fight), and the melees allow you to take out enemies and bosses in multiple ways.

I always thought it was rewarding when you learned the right combination of timing and attacks to stun an enemy and leave them open for a finisher; I always find a few new ones each time I play the game.

I'd also argue that the enemy design was more faithful, even if the art was lackluster compared to the Primes overall. Certain bosses made me immediately think of Super Metroid, which never happened with the Prime games; Prime's enemies were great, but in a different way, done by a different set of artists.

Vorash is a good example. This design is pure Metroid, I can't imagine this in any other series: http://images.wikia.com/metroid/es/images/a/a6/Vorash-arte-oficial.jpg


and the Rhedogian . I don't understand how anyone could fail to enjoy how utterly weird this thing is: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100816183040/metroid/images/8/8e/ULF46battle_1.jpg

CaptainRandom1 posted...

What!?

Part of why we dislike Other M is because of how unfaithful it was to Super Metroid.


At least 3 or 4 of the "regulars" in Other M bashing threads have told me they started with Prime and completely dislike Super Metroid. And these people went on 4 page tirades about how Prime was much more faithful to a game they didn't even like, as if that was somehow an asset.
#240CrystalKing5426Posted 7/25/2013 10:33:17 PM
Nerreltron9000 posted...
*snip*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfS0254dRRw#t=12m30s
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Other M is the One More Day of Metroid
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