The real problem with Wii U

#1CallmegePosted 7/31/2013 3:14:35 PM
And every Nintendo console really* is Nintendos overelliance on its first party titles, in particular Mario but Zelda and Metroid are also offenders.

Yes the games Nintendo makes are usually of a very high quality but there's only so many mario and mario kart titles you can play before you just get bored, and quite frankly I had enough of mario for good somewhere in the middle of Galaxy.

And you can't blame the 3rd party developers for this. Sony and Microsoft go out of their way to make their consoles more attractive to developers, whether by improving the development tools or simply by giving cash incentives to develop for their system. Nintendo has had woeful 3rd party support since the N64 and there's absolutely no sign of this changing with Wii U. Why would a developer, who is running a business, not a charity for gamers remember, want to develop for a company that's acts as though they don't want 3rd party support? I used to be a devoted Nintendo gamer, but after the mess that was the Gamecube I switched to where the games are: everywhere but Nintendo.

If Nintendo could get some proper 3rd party support, combined with the attractive price of their consoles, I'd happily switch back. But until then it's just a console for playing Mario and Zelda so I'll stick to where the real games are.

*while I'm aware the Wii started off strongly, once the novelty of the waggle sticks wore off and no games were forthcoming, its sales plummeted rapidly.
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#2syphoned_edgePosted 7/31/2013 3:16:10 PM
Callmege posted...
And every Nintendo console really* is Nintendos overelliance on its first party titles, in particular Mario but Zelda and Metroid are also offenders.

Yes the games Nintendo makes are usually of a very high quality but there's only so many mario and mario kart titles you can play before you just get bored, and quite frankly I had enough of mario for good somewhere in the middle of Galaxy.

And you can't blame the 3rd party developers for this. Sony and Microsoft go out of their way to make their consoles more attractive to developers, whether by improving the development tools or simply by giving cash incentives to develop for their system. Nintendo has had woeful 3rd party support since the N64 and there's absolutely no sign of this changing with Wii U. Why would a developer, who is running a business, not a charity for gamers remember, want to develop for a company that's acts as though they don't want 3rd party support? I used to be a devoted Nintendo gamer, but after the mess that was the Gamecube I switched to where the games are: everywhere but Nintendo.

If Nintendo could get some proper 3rd party support, combined with the attractive price of their consoles, I'd happily switch back. But until then it's just a console for playing Mario and Zelda so I'll stick to where the real games are.

*while I'm aware the Wii started off strongly, once the novelty of the waggle sticks wore off and no games were forthcoming, its sales plummeted rapidly.


The real problem with the Wii U is this community's over-reliance on sensationalist media and hyperbole.
#3rpgking2006Posted 7/31/2013 3:25:58 PM
Third party support is overrated, I miss out like every other title from mariokart and mario games, because I don't feel like them, but the zelda, metroid, AC, FE, advance wars, Warioware, kirby and occassional mario title are still enough for me. It sounds a little on the dodgy side, but third party support on a console only really seems worth it if you're into the FPS or sports genres.
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#4KayubePosted 7/31/2013 3:26:20 PM
Nintendo has tried letting third parties have the spotlight. Look at the initial Wii U announcement, it was mostly third party games and not a lot of big first party stuff. But people didn't want to buy the Wii U until there was a big first party game, so the third parties backed out and we were left with nothing.
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#5teehee23Posted 7/31/2013 3:32:15 PM
rpgking2006 posted...
Third party support is overrated, I miss out like every other title from mariokart and mario games, because I don't feel like them, but the zelda, metroid, AC, FE, advance wars, Warioware, kirby and occassional mario title are still enough for me. It sounds a little on the dodgy side, but third party support on a console only really seems worth it if you're into the FPS or sports genres.


That's one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
I'm tempted to punch myself in the face just for reading it.
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#6LvthnPosted 7/31/2013 3:38:33 PM
rpgking2006 posted...
third party support on a console only really seems worth it if you're into the FPS or sports genres.


Or RPGs, fighters, shooters, racers, stealth, survival, hack n slash, sandbox, strategy, etc etc.

Nintendo covers a few of those genres with first party, but unless racer = just Mario Kart and fighter = just SSB, you're really cutting genres short. Some of them are entirely absent from Nintendo's roster.
#7stalemate_666Posted 7/31/2013 3:49:56 PM
Kayube posted...
Nintendo has tried letting third parties have the spotlight. Look at the initial Wii U announcement, it was mostly third party games and not a lot of big first party stuff. But people didn't want to buy the Wii U until there was a big first party game, so the third parties backed out and we were left with nothing.


Pikmin 3 got delayed to hell, that isn't a case so much of Nintendo letting them have the spotlight as them being unable to release their games on their original release date. Nintendo hasn't been doing HD development for 5 years like everyone else and even outsourced a ton on the wii so yeah... Also Nintendo designed their system to be hard for third parties, it's currently harder to develop for them ps3,360,ps4 or xbone, has a controller that is way different that developers don't want to put the time and effort into making something for it and I've even heard rumors of Nintendo keeping the specs for their system a secret from third parties as long as possible making it impossible for them to program for.

On the flip side Sony and MS are building their consoles with third parties in mind, offering them incentives for developing and back when ps3 had crap support and was hard to develop Sony sent their own devs to help teach third parties to code for ps3 to make things easier for them and get better support. Nintendo just plain isn't making the effort, any thing they have done to get third party support has been half ass at best.
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#8Ritster21Posted 7/31/2013 3:53:20 PM
stalemate_666 posted...
Kayube posted...
Nintendo has tried letting third parties have the spotlight. Look at the initial Wii U announcement, it was mostly third party games and not a lot of big first party stuff. But people didn't want to buy the Wii U until there was a big first party game, so the third parties backed out and we were left with nothing.


Pikmin 3 got delayed to hell, that isn't a case so much of Nintendo letting them have the spotlight as them being unable to release their games on their original release date. Nintendo hasn't been doing HD development for 5 years like everyone else and even outsourced a ton on the wii so yeah... Also Nintendo designed their system to be hard for third parties, it's currently harder to develop for them ps3,360,ps4 or xbone, has a controller that is way different that developers don't want to put the time and effort into making something for it and I've even heard rumors of Nintendo keeping the specs for their system a secret from third parties as long as possible making it impossible for them to program for.

On the flip side Sony and MS are building their consoles with third parties in mind, offering them incentives for developing and back when ps3 had crap support and was hard to develop Sony sent their own devs to help teach third parties to code for ps3 to make things easier for them and get better support. Nintendo just plain isn't making the effort, any thing they have done to get third party support has been half ass at best.


So in general....

Nintendo makes consoles for themselves.

Sony and Microsoft make consoles for 3rd parties/everybody.

Is that about right?
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#9usaamahlinkPosted 7/31/2013 4:03:46 PM
Overreliance is not a problem in and of itself, its simply a symptom of a deeper issue. Whether that is a console that is unattractive to third parties due to software or OS or development issues, or whether (as in the Wii U's case) simply through lack of an install base and therefore a solid business proposition for an opportunity. If the Wii U had a lot of quality first party software at launch, and it sold well. Would third parties shy away? Would EA have wanted, or felt compelled to get Frostbite 3 running on it? I don't doubt for a second that if EA did get it running, and they spent time and effort (and money) it would outperform xbox 360 or PS3 on the Wii U. But the thing is there is no viable financial return on their investment, and so they're not making that investment. When you have third party software not availble on the system, your damn right we're going to see an over reliance on first party software. If Nintendo sat back and gave third parties an opportunity, by not putting out their own stuff, no one would buy a Wii U.

So in short, no reliance on first party software is NOT a problem. It's a necessity to make people interested in purchasing the console (whether this is more true for a Nintendo console than otherwise is a different argument, especially since then you have so many more variables involved.) The OVER-reliance on first party software is simply due to a lack of quality third party software (or just a lack of it, despite the quality).
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#10stalemate_666Posted 8/1/2013 12:16:52 AM
Ritster21 posted...
So in general....

Nintendo makes consoles for themselves.

Sony and Microsoft make consoles for 3rd parties/everybody.

Is that about right?


Rather over-simplified but kinda yeah.
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