Why does Nintendo get blamed?

#41CyricsServantPosted 8/3/2013 11:16:38 AM
Baha05 posted...
Nice_Kirbyfan9 posted...
Nintendo is the exception because you all dont buy many third party games, and you whine about boycotting them. The fanbase does not buy third party games in most cases, unless they are casual/minigame/fitness nonsense. Blame the fanbase, and blame Nintendo for targeting them.


People don't like buying gimped versions of games an months to year old ports for full price? It's almost like 3rd party devs have no clue how to market games or make them worth the price!


I fully agree that 3rd party efforts on the Wii U have been half-assed. At the same time, I understand why developers are so wary based on their previous history with Nintendo. Many of the most critically acclaimed 3rd party games on the Wii failed commercially.

While I think 3rd parties have put out a lot of **** on the Wii U that deserved to flop, I don't blame them for not developing exclusive content. Not every developer is going to fall on its sword for Nintendo, like Cing. Nintendo has to provide better incentives, which means taking a hit to the pocketbook in the short term.
#42DiscostewSMPosted 8/3/2013 11:16:42 AM
CyricsServant posted...
DiscostewSM posted...
Nice_Kirbyfan9 posted...
From: CyricsServant | #014
I don't see why I should be mad at 3rd parties for not bankrupting themselves by supporting the Wii U with exclusive content.

Exactly. It is Nintendos job to sell their console. Third partys have Sony and MS to fall back on. Nintendo needs to make the Wii U enticing for consumers and third parties, but they failed miserably at both.

Nintendo deserves the majority of the blame for the awful situation they have put themselves in.


And yet coincidentally, Sony and Microsoft aren't the ones to sell their systems. The 3rd parties are......Nintendo having to be the exception is stupid.


So third parties should lose (or seriously risk losing) money on Wii U development, while making money for Nintendo through software royalties and hardware sales, with no additional incentives offered up by Nintendo? Is that what you're suggesting?


Do you know how many development houses closed due to the PS3/360? Far more than with the Wii. If you're attempting to blame the low install base of the Wii U as the reason why 3rd parties aren't making games for it, then you're going to be in for a surprise when the PS4/XB1 start out the same way. They won't have the install base of the PS3/360 for years, if ever, so either way, 3rd parties are going to have problems moving to next-gen systems. Why else do we see developers sticking with PS3/360 for a couple more years and not moving on to "any" next-gen system?
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#43dancing_cactuarPosted 8/3/2013 11:16:43 AM
Nice_Kirbyfan9 posted...
stuff


But we're talking about the Wii U third party games here. Most of the third party games are old ports that either had features removed, or came out at the same time as a deal that they were doing (Mass Effect 3/Trilogy).

When you have the option to buy two radios from a store, are you going to pick the radio that is in pristine condition and comes included with 2 CDs worth of music, or are you going to pick the radio with no CDs, but is otherwise the same radio, for the same exact price?

It's completely unsurprising that those games in particular sold like crap, and that's what this topic is about. This isn't about 3rd party games from the Wii or Gamecube or whatever, it's about the current 3rd party line up for the Wii U, and how companies like EA blame Nintendo for their shoddy products selling poorly.

If those games were exactly the same as the other versions, you'd have a stool to stand on, even if one of the legs was slightly weak.
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#44CyricsServantPosted 8/3/2013 11:21:35 AM
DiscostewSM posted...
Do you know how many development houses closed due to the PS3/360? Far more than with the Wii.


True or false, that's a moot point. Developer's aren't obligated to risk financial ruin for ANY of the hardware developers. That'd be unfair to their shareholders, unfair to their employees, and unfair to their fans (who obviously won't be able to purchase any of their games if said dev/publisher missteps and goes under).

If you're attempting to blame the low install base of the Wii U as the reason why 3rd parties aren't making games for it, then you're going to be in for a surprise when the PS4/XB1 start out the same way.


I'm not blaming any one factor. I'm merely saying Nintendo should ultimately be held responsible for the quality of their systems' libraries. Ditto for any other hardware dev.
#45Baha05Posted 8/3/2013 11:23:53 AM
CyricsServant posted...
I fully agree that 3rd party efforts on the Wii U have been half-assed. At the same time, I understand why developers are so wary based on their previous history with Nintendo. Many of the most critically acclaimed 3rd party games on the Wii failed commercially.

While I think 3rd parties have put out a lot of **** on the Wii U that deserved to flop, I don't blame them for not developing exclusive content. Not every developer is going to fall on its sword for Nintendo, like Cing. Nintendo has to provide better incentives, which means taking a hit to the pocketbook in the short term.


But the fact is that 3rd party are doing far more damage to themselves. Developing games is a riskier business in this generation because of budget costs and making a return on your investment. For the effort 3rd party is putting into the Wii U is more damaging then simply sucking it up and doing a better job.
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#46Nice_Kirbyfan9Posted 8/3/2013 11:24:09 AM
From: dancing_cactuar | #043
But we're talking about the Wii U third party games here. Most of the third party games are old ports that either had features removed, or came out at the same time as a deal that they were doing (Mass Effect 3/Trilogy).

You need to think a bit deeper. If you have any knowledge of Nintendos History you would know how poorly third party games have been selling on their recent home consoles. This was not going to magically change with the Wii U and third parties know that. These gimped ports will not sell much better even if they were perfect ports.

When you have the option to buy two radios from a store, are you going to pick the radio that is in pristine condition and comes included with 2 CDs worth of music, or are you going to pick the radio with no CDs, but is otherwise the same radio, for the same exact price?

Please find a valid analogy and try again.

It's completely unsurprising that those games in particular sold like crap, and that's what this topic is about. This isn't about 3rd party games from the Wii or Gamecube or whatever, it's about the current 3rd party line up for the Wii U, and how companies like EA blame Nintendo for their shoddy products selling poorly.

Like I said before, you must think deeper. The relationship between third parties and Nintendo today, is a direct result of their relationship in the past. You all seem so confused because you are disregarding how poorly third party games performed on past Nintendo consoles.

If those games were exactly the same as the other versions, you'd have a stool to stand on, even if one of the legs was slightly weak.

If they were the exact same, they would still sell horribly on the wii u (like they did in the past)
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#47AsellusPosted 8/3/2013 11:33:51 AM
I understand that there was a point where Nintendo wanted to censor content (Mortal Kombat 1)

It was a pretty short time, the Genesis version of MK trouncing the SNES one was all it took for Nintendo to do a 180 for MK 2.
#48LightHawKnightPosted 8/3/2013 12:16:04 PM
CyricsServant posted...
Baha05 posted...
CyricsServant posted...
@Baha05

That may very well be. Nintendo is still responsible for the quality of their hardware's software library.

Getting rid of that "sell 10k+ units or we keep all your profits" policy they implemented for arcade and indie devs for the Wii was a step in the right direction, but there are other decisions they could make to increase interest in Wii U development.


Yes for their soft ware but again, 3rd party devs are responsible for THEIR own software. First party games have ALWAYS been outnumbered by the sheer amount of 3rd party devs.


Third parties are responsible for the quality of their software, but Nintendo is responsible for the quality and scope of the Wii U's library. So I don't blame Nintendo for a 3rd party's half-assed effort on their system, but I DO blame them for not doing enough to improve the quality and size of their system's library. They obviously deserve the lion's share of the blame. It's their system. They designed the hardware. They profit from each unit sold. They profit from each unit of software sold (1st, 2nd, and 3rd party). Third parties aren't beholden to Nintendo and owe them nothing unless contractually obligated. At the end of the day, Nintendo is responsible for what's released on Nintendo's systems.


You can't blame Nintendo. If they released their awesome first party games right off the bat, guess who would be complaining? The third parties, cause Nintendo's first party games would overwhelmingly crush the competition. Nintendo clearly left the 3rd parties time to build up their strength before they step in and start selling like mad.

Either way Nintendo is screwed. Build up a big install base by making their first party games and alienating third parties cause they can't compete, or let third parties get their games out, so that they get sales and then have them not try cause the install base isn't big enough. Sad really.
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#49mjc0961Posted 8/3/2013 12:47:50 PM
Kromlech06 posted...
If haters abided to logic they would die out pretty fast. One cannot expect logic from them.

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sirtonne posted...
This topic is so stupid I had to slap my wife.
#50CyricsServantPosted 8/3/2013 4:53:15 PM
LightHawKnight posted...
You can't blame Nintendo. If they released their awesome first party games right off the bat, guess who would be complaining? The third parties, cause Nintendo's first party games would overwhelmingly crush the competition. Nintendo clearly left the 3rd parties time to build up their strength before they step in and start selling like mad.


First off, that's not clear at all. Nintendo devs are the ones who've had the most time to work with the Wii U dev kit. I also suspect most 3rd party devs would have been thrilled to have more high-profile first party titles at launch as it would have helped build up the Wii U's user base.

And second, yes, I can and do "blame" Nintendo for the state of their library. And I haven't heard one compelling argument why I shouldn't. There are decisions they could have made prior to the launch of the Wii U, and there are decisions they could make now, to help improve the Wii U's library.