Lack of Trophy system on Wii U gives little incentive to finish Nintendo games

#141mcsmellingtonPosted 9/4/2013 8:10:04 AM
Terotrous posted...
mcsmellington posted...
That's because without a universal system for them to link into, they're meaningless.

A bunch of meaningless things aggregated together are still meaningless. That's the principle metacritic operates on.


You may find them meaningless, others don't. Aggregated together they can provide a profile of the sort of games you like, or what you've played most, or you can compare with friends etc.

They're not meaningless at all, if you don't like them fair enough, but there's definitely something to them.
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#142crowe_1Posted 9/4/2013 8:19:16 AM
The point of achievements, aside from being a carrot dangling in front of your face to motivate you to play, is to prove that you have done something in a game. Achievements equal perceived credibility, but even that perception is largely flawed or redundant.

I mean, if I tell you that I used to be able to consistently beat Battletoads or any number of NES games as a kid, are you seriously going to not believe me just because I probably can't do it now? Do I care if you don't believe me? Not really...I generally have nothing to prove to anybody when it comes to videogame accomplishments. But apparently people do have something to prove, because comparing gaming resumes by talking doesnt seem to be good enough anymore unless you have a tickmark from MS or Sony legitimizing what you are saying. As I see it, most of the people who care about achievements are people with something to prove, even if only to settle pissing contests that might never happen.

But achievements are little more reliable than someone's word to begin with. Anybody could get a friend to unlock achievements for them on their profile, so realistically if someone shows you an achievement you are still taking their word for it to a considerable degree. It's still based on faith. Achievements don't hurt, so why not I guess, but they don't have as much value as many choose to believe.

All that being said, some achievements do cause players to set goals for themselves like finishing game X on Hard without dying (Dead Space 2), or beating the game without using guns (Mirror's Edge), or beating a level without being spotted (Splinter Cell). Those things can increase enjoyment, and that's all good. But these are all things that players could do for themselves, achievements or no achievements. For example, I can try to beat The Last of Us on Survivor difficulty with zero deaths just as easily as I can Dead Space 2. It's just as big an accomplishment. The only difference is perceived proof. For some reason, saying "I beat TLoU on Survivor without dying" doesn't matter, because the devs didn't give you a little emblem to show off for everyone to see. But that's a player ego problem IMO, and doesn't make 99.9% of achievements any more valuable than a third grade hockey medal. TC is basically implying that there is little incentive to play sports unless there is a teacher present to give him a ribbon.
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#143AerodarPosted 9/4/2013 8:22:42 AM
Not sure why everyone is bashing the trophy/achievement system. Obviously these things work since Sony and Microsoft decided to incorporate them into games.

As far as people don't need trophies to finish a game this does makes sense, you don't really need them however trophies are usually put in for replay-ability. Finish the game on easy normal and hard would earn you trophies. I myself wouldn't really play a game where a difficulty is enhanced w/o something in the end unless it has a different ending which sometimes games do offer.

I think it would be interesting for Nintendo to add something like this because then everybody will be happy, those that just want to finish the game then go ahead and beat it or does that are completionists get an opportunity to go beyond that.
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#144Koi_TenchiPosted 9/4/2013 8:25:24 AM
Just saw this thread on the front page of GameFAQs and am baffled...

Back in the NES era all the way to PS2 era, we played games just to have fun. We didn' need "incentives" for us to have fun. We just played games because we wanted to play games.

The Wii U is by no means the perfect console, but the lack of "achievements/trophies" is definitely among the least important issues with it.
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#145GANONDORFIVYPosted 9/4/2013 8:27:39 AM
No need for that garbage to end games, do it for the sake of fun and watch story
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#146TerotrousPosted 9/4/2013 8:28:28 AM
mcsmellington posted...
You may find them meaningless, others don't. Aggregated together they can provide a profile of the sort of games you like, or what you've played most, or you can compare with friends etc.

The only thing they really do is tell which games you own. They don't tell how much time you've put into them because the trophies aren't equally easy to get in each game. There's also no way to tell which games people actually liked and which ones they just suffered through to get trophies, either, and most hardcore trophy hunters spend most of their time doing the latter.


Miiverse provides any of the useful benefits that trophies actually have. Alternatively, you can use Backloggery, which is far more useful than any trophy system as it actually DOES let you create the kind of gamer profile that the achievement systems don't.
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#147TyrantLowKeyPosted 9/4/2013 8:28:38 AM
HaloOfTheSun442 posted...
If you need trophies or achievements as incentive to finish games, then you probably shouldn't be playing video games. Nobody cares what you "accomplish" by earning virtual trophies.


As much as I feel this way, I feel like drawing in the crowd of "trophy" and "achievement" hunters is hurting Nintendo. So from a business standpoint I agree completely.
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#148mcsmellingtonPosted 9/4/2013 8:28:49 AM
GANONDORFIVY posted...
No need for that garbage to end games, do it for the sake of fun and watch story


How will it end games? And how am I meant to watch the story in New Super Mario Bros U? There isn't one.
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#149mcsmellingtonPosted 9/4/2013 8:33:06 AM
Terotrous posted...
mcsmellington posted...
You may find them meaningless, others don't. Aggregated together they can provide a profile of the sort of games you like, or what you've played most, or you can compare with friends etc.

The only thing they really do is tell which games you own. They don't tell how much time you've put into them because the trophies aren't equally easy to get in each game. There's also no way to tell which games people actually liked and which ones they just suffered through to get trophies, either, and most hardcore trophy hunters spend most of their time doing the latter.


Miiverse provides any of the useful benefits that trophies actually have. Alternatively, you can use Backloggery, which is far more useful than any trophy system as it actually DOES let you create the kind of gamer profile that the achievement systems don't.


So your suggestion rather than using (or improving upon) the current system, is to go online and use a third party website?

With a unified system like Xbox Live, if you wanted you could write about your favourite games, and have your achievements there to accompany it. You can compare them with a friend to see how far through a game you both are. The way I see it, there are more reasons to have a unified achievement system than there aren't. I've still not seen one good reason for not including them yet. Most people seem to believe they'll taint the purity that is gaming, or something equally ridiculous.
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#150TerotrousPosted 9/4/2013 8:36:09 AM(edited)
crowe_1 posted...
The point of achievements, aside from being a carrot dangling in front of your face to motivate you to play, is to prove that you have done something in a game. Achievements equal perceived credibility, but even that perception is largely flawed or redundant.

Except they don't because hacked trophies are all over the place now.

Also, there's only 3 ways of proving your skill that actually matter.

- Beating a game
- Beating a game well (highest difficulty / no continue / whatever, varies by game)
- Doing well at the game's competitive mode

The third one also has a built-in method of "proof".


I mean, if I tell you that I used to be able to consistently beat Battletoads or any number of NES games as a kid, are you seriously going to not believe me just because I probably can't do it now? Do I care if you don't believe me? Not really

The thing is I also don't care if you can actually do it or not, and neither does anyone else. Achievements exist because people have this notion that other people care, but they really don't. The sooner you realize this the sooner you can have more fun with games.


You can also almost always tell if someone is full of crap or not by listening to what they say, anyway. If someone claims they can beat Battletoads and they clearly know a lot about NES games, they probably can.


mcsmellington posted...
So your suggestion rather than using (or improving upon) the current system, is to go online and use a third party website?

If they want to improve upon the current system, they can have your Miiverse profile list every game you've played on your Wii U. That'd really be good enough.

It would, however, still be far inferior to Backloggery, as among other things, no Nintendo service is going to let me mention which games I own for Playstation Vita, and vice versa.
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