The third party situation is a wierd situation

#21Griff6260Posted 2/18/2014 11:02:18 PM
Even when there was somewhat solid third party support, like the GameCube... the GCN versions of multiplats just didn't sell well. With the obvious exception of Soul Calibur 2.
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#22DiscostewSMPosted 2/18/2014 11:05:45 PM
Valor_Phoenix posted...
Out of curiosity, can the Wii U handle large DLC updates for games?

If not, does this mean the DLC has to be on-disc and thus finished before the game goes gold?


Technically, the Wii U can handle large DLC updates. The problem is space. For those of us that have external HDDs attached, it's no problem, but companies are looking at the overall picture, and are taking the idea that if they don't have one attached, then they aren't able to accept these large DLC packs. One reason why Wii U does get them later is as you suggest. Put the DLC on the disc and send it off after it's gotten enough fixes built-in. They could continue supplying fixes after this, but nothing massive unless (as mentioned earlier) they see statistics showing that an increasing number of people are attaching external HDDs.

There is another side to this as well (though kinda off the subject a little), and that is data transfer. Built-in HDDs are simply faster than external HDDs running at USB 2.0 speeds (which are slightly higher than the disc drive's read speed). Most PS3/360/PS4/XB1 units have internal HDDs (not in flash storage form) that can be used for the installing of raw and commonly-loaded assets. This can allow either playing fully from the internal drive, or combining disc and HDD to load more data in a set amount of time (like what GTA V does). Wii U "could " do this, but it has limited space internally, and (once again mentioned) not everyone has an external HDD attached to make it a favorable option.

Now I'm beginning to wonder. Does Nintendo get this kind of information? Like how many people have an external HDD attached to their Wii Us?
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#23DiscostewSMPosted 2/18/2014 11:10:41 PM(edited)
DarkFoxV posted...
DiscostewSM posted...
DarkFoxV posted...
TomoEK9 posted...
DiscostewSM posted...
People try to insinuate the chicken/egg scenario, but we have clear indications of 3rd-parties making the move first towards 3rd-party decline on the Wii U, almost like it was planned.

The problems started on the Wii and merely carried over to the Wii U


Well to be more technical. It started during the SNES, got worse when N64 went cart instead of disc based. Got even worse when the GCN went mini DVD over DVD. And spiraled out of control with Wii and now WiiU.


The data assets that took up so much space on those discs were FMVs. There's also streaming audio and pre-rendered backgrounds, but those can serve a meaning purpose within the games themselves. You take a look at a game like Super Mario 3D World, and it's only 1.6GB, but Super Mario Galaxy took up almost a full DVD because of FMVs. You've got games like Zelda:OoT that attempted to use the strengths of their designated systems using little, if not any, fillers.


While true, a lot of games on PS1 and Saturn where still around 120+mb at the least even without FMVs. the N64 cart capacity was 64 to 90mb. the later required special carts. Not to mention the development costs to produce carts compared to CDs.

Most 3rd parties didn't want to deal with that.


I do agree that carts hurt the N64 because of how much it cost to manufacture them (not to mention that cost affected us as well because we ended up paying more for N64 games than PSX games). I'm just saying that a lot of the space used for disc-based games were filler.
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#24Valor_PhoenixPosted 2/18/2014 11:15:02 PM
DiscostewSM posted...
Technically, the Wii U can handle large DLC updates. The problem is space. For those of us that have external HDDs attached, it's no problem, but companies are looking at the overall picture, and are taking the idea that if they don't have one attached, then they aren't able to accept these large DLC packs.

Thank you, that was quite useful. That explains why large DLC is rather uncommon on the Wii U. They were rather pressed for time getting it ported and coupled with the online not being fully sorted out for launch, a lot of games would have cut Multiplayer and large DLC.

Multiplayer in particular requires everyone to have the same game updates, and DLC is included in the updates so everyone has it(even if they don't own it), so that is another problem.

The PS3 and XBox used to have update requirements that annoyed devs. Sony dropped their requirements and Microsoft requiring $50,000 for a game update won the PS4 a lot of exclusive games in 2013. Microsoft did reduce their fee however, but the other consoles have had similar problems. The 360 also had a bit of an issue due to the HDD not being required.

With NSLuigi being a major DLC, how big of a DLC is it data wise?
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#25cyanide_suicidePosted 2/18/2014 11:25:45 PM
TomoEK9 posted...
DiscostewSM posted...
People try to insinuate the chicken/egg scenario, but we have clear indications of 3rd-parties making the move first towards 3rd-party decline on the Wii U, almost like it was planned.

The problems started on the Wii and merely carried over to the Wii U


Hell, the problem started on the Gamecube. Multiplats sold pretty decently on the N64 even during the N64 vs Playstation days, but when the Gamecube rolled around third party sales dropped like a rock and never recovered.
#26MushroomMuncher(Topic Creator)Posted 2/19/2014 11:49:28 AM
Bump
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I think bankruptcy might even be good for Sony.~ChA0TiCoNe
#27AvirosbPosted 2/19/2014 11:55:32 AM
justsumdude899 posted...
Except there have been quality games like ZombiU, Splinter Cell: Blacklist, and Need for Speed Most Wanted, which have been mostly ignored on the platform. Small install base could be blamed, but in some cases, the Wii U versions had real effort behind them. The Wii U doesn't always get a crappier version of a game.
I'd be all over Splinter Cell if only it had local co-op.
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Console wars are like pissing contests. So yeah.
#28MrhaggiPosted 2/19/2014 12:21:32 PM
Nintendo and sega is pretty close so hope they come together for the next console.

Even if 3rd party will fail even then they will have more games that way.

But probably wont happen
#29arvilinoPosted 2/19/2014 12:31:22 PM
Mrhaggi posted...
Nintendo and sega is pretty close so hope they come together for the next console.

Even if 3rd party will fail even then they will have more games that way.

But probably wont happen


Nintendo will have more games next gen by the merit their Handheld and Console will essentially share an operating system, I'd imagine there'd be some titles that are essentially dual releases on both systems while others sharing assets for possibly different games in the same series on both consoles.

Third parties could potentially benefit from it as well since in the best case scenario it should make it really easy for them to release the same game on both console and handheld and reap higher sales across Nintendo formats.
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#30robomagonPosted 2/19/2014 3:11:15 PM(edited)
DiscostewSM posted...
I do agree that carts hurt the N64 because of how much it cost to manufacture them (not to mention that cost affected us as well because we ended up paying more for N64 games than PSX games). I'm just saying that a lot of the space used for disc-based games were filler.


IIRC 64MB was the largest N64 cart size. And it was very rarely used because it made the carts so much more expensive to produce.

EDIT:
This list probably isn't 100% complete/accurate, but yeah, 8MB and 16MB were by far the most used N64 carts. There were a lot of 4MB games too.

24MB
Duke Nukem - Zer0 H0ur
Fushigi No Dungeon - Fuurai No Shiren 2
Gex 3 - Deep Cover Gecko
Mickey's Speedway Usa
Neon Genesis Evangelion (j)
Pokémon Stadium 2
Star Wars Episode I - Battle For Naboo
Star Wars Episode I - Racer
Super Robot Taisen 64 (j)
Toukon Road 2 - The Next Generation (j)
Tsumi To Batsu - Chikyuu No Keishousha (j)
WWf No Mercy
WWf Wrestlemania 2000

32MB
Aidyn Chronicles - The First Mage
ECW Hardcore Revolution
Indiana Jones And The Infernal Machine
Jet Force Gemini
Mega Man 64
Perfect Dark
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing - Round 2
Shadow Man
Starcraft 64
Turok 2 - Seeds Of Evil
Turok 3 - Shadow Of Oblivion
WWf Attitude

40MB
Ogre Battle 64 - Person Of Lordly Caliber

64MB
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Resident Evil 2

Yup. I only found two games that used the 64MB cart.
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