Great video about nintendos history with 3rd parties

#21CannskePosted 3/12/2014 10:25:34 AM
iKhan88 posted...
Did you read my original comment? I'm not stupid. Cartridges were obviously archaic at the time, and the switch to CDs was the right way to go for the industry.

What I'm arguing that from the perspective of a non tech savvy consumer, cartridges appeared to be the superior game medium, as they could store saves, loaded faster, and weren't damaged as easily.


Some people just like to post without actually reading what they're replying to. Kinda like those idiots who post "first" in videos
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#22Ryan SiPosted 3/12/2014 11:05:20 AM
iKhan88 posted...
Ryan Si posted...
Nintendo has just time and time again lagged behind in adjusting to what modern gamers want in the home console space.


This is somewhat inaccurate. From a consumer standpoint, Cartridges were 100% better than CDs, They could store saves, loaded faster, didn't break or scratch as easily, and could be taken anywhere and played with the same save data.

They only hurt from a developer standpoint, as they couldn't hold as much data and were expensive to produce.


Cartridges had some advantages for gamers, but there were also downsides. The audio and video capabilities of N64 titles fell short of PS1 games. I also preferred the memory card save system of the PS1 over the N64's save to the cartridge or a Memory Pak.

Still you can't ignore the developer support Sony was handed because Nintendo went with cartridges.
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#23VanderZooPosted 3/12/2014 9:47:48 PM
iKhan88 posted...
Ryan Si posted...
Nintendo has just time and time again lagged behind in adjusting to what modern gamers want in the home console space.


This is somewhat inaccurate. From a consumer standpoint, Cartridges were 100% better than CDs, They could store saves, loaded faster, didn't break or scratch as easily, and could be taken anywhere and played with the same save data.

They only hurt from a developer standpoint


And that in turn hurts the gamers. PS1 had a much more extensive and varied game library. And take an individual game like FF7 or MGS, they was impossible on the N64.

They would have to be heavily dumb downed to run, which means sacrificing the developer's vision, which in turn means the gamer isn't playing the game the developers truly wanted to make.

And the extra room on the CD's meant less compression, so even though N64 had better grapphics, PS1 would often come out on top. Resident Evil 2 is a classic example, for the most part the PS1 version looked better, because the N64 version had to be so heavily compressed.

PS1 is on the left:

http://www.clangsm.net/Upload/images/arcvsstft.png
#24VanderZooPosted 3/12/2014 9:52:36 PM
Falling Down posted...
xxx000110000111 posted...
21_21 posted...
And lol at Miyamoto's PS 2 comment.


I find it interesting how he indirectly called the GameCube a secondary console in the very same interview.


Yeah that was a trip, especially since it seems to still be the expectation 12 years later. My childhood weeps for Nintendo, apparently they thought they were still the only game in town and didn't respect their competition, NES and SNES gave them that mindset and they never grew out of it.


I think you nailed it, Nintendo just doesn't respect anyone. They seem entitled. I don't think they can get over history.
#2521_21Posted 3/12/2014 9:57:39 PM(edited)
VanderZoo posted...
I think you nailed it, Nintendo just doesn't respect anyone. They seem entitled. I don't think they can get over history.


Considering how Nintendo's desperately trying to scavenge as much third party as possible, and even indie devs onto their WiiU, I think they changed their minds. But yeah, it is too late. Piss people off, and you won't get them to help you out later when you need them the most.
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#26iKhan88Posted 3/12/2014 9:59:22 PM
VanderZoo posted...
And that in turn hurts the gamers. PS1 had a much more extensive and varied game library. And take an individual game like FF7 or MGS, they was impossible on the N64.

They would have to be heavily dumb downed to run, which means sacrificing the developer's vision, which in turn means the gamer isn't playing the game the developers truly wanted to make.

And the extra room on the CD's meant less compression, so even though N64 had better grapphics, PS1 would often come out on top. Resident Evil 2 is a classic example, for the most part the PS1 version looked better, because the N64 version had to be so heavily compressed.


My point is that unlike powerful hardware, mature games, or online play, CD's were not something the consumer actively "wanted". In fact no one really knew it was that big a deal until FFVII jumped ship. In terms of observable features to a consumer who isn't tech-savvy, cartridges actually came out on top.

Cartridges hurt Nintendo not because the gamers directly didn't like them, but because they indirectly disliked the consequences of them, like you explain.
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#27VanderZooPosted 3/12/2014 10:02:42 PM
21_21 posted...
I'm watching this video more, and holy s***, Yamauchi claimed that 3rd party developers are useless? And then Iwata repeated that? Wow, this video is making me hate these two even more assuming what this guy is saying is true.

And lol at Miyamoto's PS 2 comment.


That comment would have been ridiculous even back then, let alone looking back as PS2 sold 156 million to GC's 20 lol...
#2821_21Posted 3/12/2014 10:06:13 PM
VanderZoo posted...
21_21 posted...
I'm watching this video more, and holy s***, Yamauchi claimed that 3rd party developers are useless? And then Iwata repeated that? Wow, this video is making me hate these two even more assuming what this guy is saying is true.

And lol at Miyamoto's PS 2 comment.


That comment would have been ridiculous even back then, let alone looking back as PS2 sold 156 million to GC's 20 lol...


The PS 2 is the best selling console of all time, isn't it? Miyamoto had to practically eat his own words XD. Not counting the DS, it had the most number of games worth buying.
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#29Nice_Kirbyfan9Posted 3/12/2014 10:06:14 PM
iKhan88 posted...
Ryan Si posted...
Nintendo has just time and time again lagged behind in adjusting to what modern gamers want in the home console space.


This is somewhat inaccurate. From a consumer standpoint, Cartridges were 100% better than CDs, They could store saves, loaded faster, didn't break or scratch as easily, and could be taken anywhere and played with the same save data.

They only hurt from a developer standpoint, as they couldn't hold as much data and were expensive to produce.


Pure nonsense. The 100% number is simply ridiculous as you later in the topic go on to admit how much better CDs were than cartridges.

All you have done was list the few benefits of cartridges, and somehow surmised that they somehow make cartridges 100% better for consumers.

How exactly are more expensive, technologically inferior games 100% better for the consumer? Because they don't break easily?
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#30VanderZooPosted 3/12/2014 10:10:16 PM
iKhan88 posted...
My point is that unlike powerful hardware, mature games, or online play, CD's were not something the consumer actively "wanted". In fact no one really knew it was that big a deal until FFVII jumped ship. In terms of observable features to a consumer who isn't tech-savvy, cartridges actually came out on top.

Cartridges hurt Nintendo not because the gamers directly didn't like them, but because they indirectly disliked the consequences of them, like you explain.


I'm not sure that's true, because I remember a lot of people were turned off by N64 purely because it used cart's instead of CD's. It just made the system all round look outdated and childish. PS1 could play music CD's at the time and that made it more of a cool and mature electronic product.

People criticised carts simply for being carts. Even if you knew none of the benefits or flaws of either format, the mindset of people was that carts are old, and CD's are cool and modern.

I'm sure you also heard many people at the time say something like "N64 sucks, it's still using cartirdges, PS1 is better, it can even play music CD's". I know I heard that constantly in the classroom between the PS1 and N64 camps lol.

So I would say it was something the consumer wanted, or at least something people were happy to have. It was the right format at the right time.