Article: How Nintendo can fix the Wii U right now

#41AvirosbPosted 5/16/2014 7:58:28 AM
SampsonM posted...
The downside is that developers stop utilizing the Kinect. But guess what -- no one was really utilizing the Kinect in the first place. Just like the Gamepad.
But it is utilized.
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#42TerotrousPosted 5/16/2014 8:02:00 AM
SampsonM posted...
Again, I don't get this logic.

People want Kinect, they can still buy Kinect. Microsoft is simply giving people the choice to buy a cheaper console if they don't want, or know they won't use, Kinect.

The downside is that developers stop utilizing the Kinect. But guess what -- no one was really utilizing the Kinect in the first place. Just like the Gamepad.

No game will utilize Kinect ever again, and those nifty applications for Kinect Microsoft showed at E3 will never happen. If you bought the system early you basically have a $100 paperweight.

Heck, strike that, you basically own a $500 paperweight because at this point you really should have just bought PS4 instead.


The correct answer for dealing with a peripheral that doesn't have a ton of sales power (and the one that Nintendo is pursuing) is to find a way to make it relevant, not to just drop it altogether and burn your most loyal customers.
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#43TrueBlue91Posted 5/16/2014 8:03:03 AM
Terotrous posted...
SampsonM posted...
Again, I don't get this logic.

People want Kinect, they can still buy Kinect. Microsoft is simply giving people the choice to buy a cheaper console if they don't want, or know they won't use, Kinect.

The downside is that developers stop utilizing the Kinect. But guess what -- no one was really utilizing the Kinect in the first place. Just like the Gamepad.

No game will utilize Kinect ever again, and those nifty applications for Kinect Microsoft showed at E3 will never happen. If you bought the system early you basically have a $100 paperweight.

Heck, strike that, you basically own a $500 paperweight because at this point you really should have just bought PS4 instead.


The correct answer for dealing with a peripheral that doesn't have a ton of sales power (and the one that Nintendo is pursuing) is to find a way to make it relevant, not to just drop it altogether and burn your most loyal customers.


Barely any used it for anything important anyway.

Sound familiar?
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#44TerotrousPosted 5/16/2014 8:06:16 AM(edited)
TrueBlue91 posted...
Barely any used it for anything important anyway.

Sound familiar?

What sounds familiar is Microsoft telling us it would be the future of gaming and they'd never drop it from XBox One.

Like the gamepad, Kinect definitely had potential. They just made a really stupid choice out of unnecessary panic and they're going to pay for it big time.
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#45SampsonMPosted 5/16/2014 8:29:47 AM(edited)
Terotrous posted...
SampsonM posted...
Again, I don't get this logic.

People want Kinect, they can still buy Kinect. Microsoft is simply giving people the choice to buy a cheaper console if they don't want, or know they won't use, Kinect.

The downside is that developers stop utilizing the Kinect. But guess what -- no one was really utilizing the Kinect in the first place. Just like the Gamepad.

No game will utilize Kinect ever again, and those nifty applications for Kinect Microsoft showed at E3 will never happen. If you bought the system early you basically have a $100 paperweight.

Heck, strike that, you basically own a $500 paperweight because at this point you really should have just bought PS4 instead.


The correct answer for dealing with a peripheral that doesn't have a ton of sales power (and the one that Nintendo is pursuing) is to find a way to make it relevant, not to just drop it altogether and burn your most loyal customers.


You literally have no clue what you're talking about.

Kinect games have been released, and more are coming. Kinect already has many applications within the Xbox One (I know, I have one) including voice and gesture UI control ("Xbox, Volume Up!", etc), the ability to make Skype video calls, automatic log-in, etc.

What will change is that core games that used the Kinect in gimmicky ways (ie, Call of Duty where you can yell at the dog) will stop doing so. That's fine with me. It does not make the Kinect, or indeed the Xbox, a paper weight by any means.

Likewise, the gamepad has some useful features (off-screen play) but developers need not use it in gimmicky ways.
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#46a_fartn_Spartan(Topic Creator)Posted 5/16/2014 8:29:21 AM
You guys act like the original Kinect didn't have games that you could ONLY play with Kinect, and that there were no games that had an "enhanced experience" due to the Kinect. The Wii U will still have GamePad-necessary games. 1st party, indies, and maybe some 3rd parties with a cool idea for it (like Wonderful 101) will have GamePad-only games. There will also be games where it has optional use. So this is basically every 1st party game (and many 3rd party games) we've gotten so far besides Donkey Kong IIRC.


And I don't see how dropping the GamePad is going to affect the next console. If Nintendo has learning anything, they won't make a gimmick controller that raises the price, so it'll never be the same. That's like seeing the Virtual Boy fail and thinking you should never buy anything innovative Nintendo decides to do out of fear it will be discontinued and won't get support. Then came the DS and Wii.
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#47TrueBlue91Posted 5/16/2014 8:31:32 AM
Terotrous posted...
TrueBlue91 posted...
Barely any used it for anything important anyway.

Sound familiar?

What sounds familiar is Microsoft telling us it would be the future of gaming and they'd never drop it from XBox One.

Like the gamepad, Kinect definitely had potential. They just made a really stupid choice out of unnecessary panic and they're going to pay for it big time.

And Nintendo's not in a similar position? The Gamepad is single-handedly sabotaging this console's chance of success.
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#48TerotrousPosted 5/16/2014 8:38:21 AM(edited)
SampsonM posted...
You literally have no clue what you're talking about.

You're welcome to listen to the developers if you don't want to take my word for it:

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dropping-kinect-all-but-kills-the-chances-of-making-games-for-it/1100-6419633/


a_fartn_Spartan posted...
The Wii U will still have GamePad-necessary games. 1st party, indies, and maybe some 3rd parties with a cool idea for it (like Wonderful 101) will have GamePad-only games.

No they won't. Right now, they've sold around 7 million Wii U's, and thus 7 million gamepads. If they unbundle the Gamepad, this is all they will ever sell. That means if you're producing a gamepad-only game, you're selling to an audience of 7 mil, giving you at best a chance of selling 1 mil (and that would require spectacular sales).


The whole reason peripherals are always badly supported is because if you make a game that requires them, you're forced to sell to a much smaller audience than if you make a game everyone can play. The only way around this is to make sure everyone has the peripheral.


TrueBlue91 posted...
And Nintendo's not in a similar position? The Gamepad is single-handedly sabotaging this console's chance of success.

And no, the gamepad has absolutely nothing to do with Wii U's current struggles. The problem is a lack of games, stemming from terrible marketing on release and delays in Nintendo's first-party software.

Even if the Wii U had no gamepad, there'd still be very little reason to buy one for most people. It still has very few games available compared to the equally priced (and now more feature-rich) PS3.
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#49SampsonMPosted 5/16/2014 8:44:26 AM
You're welcome to listen to the developers if you don't want to take my word for it:


Why did the original Kinect have about 3 dozen Kinect-only games when it was sold as an optional peripheral? But your logic, that should not have happened.

The whole reason peripherals are always badly supported is because if you make a game that requires them, you're forced to sell to a much smaller audience than if you make a game everyone can play. The only way around this is to make sure everyone has the peripheral.


The gamepad is already badly supported . It is either used in gimmicky ways (Super Mario 3D World) or not used at all (Donkey Kong). The few games where it's a necessity (Nintendo Land) could be bundled with a separate Gamepad for people that want to play those games.

the gamepad has absolutely nothing to do with Wii U's current struggles. The problem is a lack of games,


The gamepad has everything to do with the Wii U's struggles. It makes the console expensive (the Wii, at launch, was only $249 and came down in price dramatically over time) which deters buyers. Which in turn deters third party developers, who already turned off by the gamepad because no other console has anything like it.

Games are not a problem. The Wii U has a lot of great games. More than the Xbox and PS4. Yet it still doesn't sell.
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#50TerotrousPosted 5/16/2014 8:51:03 AM(edited)
SampsonM posted...
Why did the original Kinect have about 3 dozen Kinect-only games when it was sold as an optional peripheral? But your logic, that should not have happened.

Because at the time Microsoft was acting like they were really committed to it and they were starting to bundle it with their system.


The gamepad is already badly supported . It is either used in gimmicky ways (Super Mario 3D World) or not used at all (Donkey Kong). The few games where it's a necessity (Nintendo Land) could be bundled with a separate Gamepad for people that want to play those games.

Every game on the system uses the gamepad, if for Off-TV Play if nothing else. It's also clearly used well in games like ZombiU and MH3U.


The gamepad has everything to do with the Wii U's struggles. It makes the console expensive (the Wii, at launch, was only $249 and came down in price dramatically over time) which deters buyers. Which in turn deters third party developers, who already turned off by the gamepad because no other console has anything like it.

The gamepad doesn't turn anyone off. You can put off-tv play in the game with 2 lines of code (this was confirmed by a developer way back). The system price is already quite competitive ($330 with 2 controllers and 2 games is way better than what any other system is offering), and removing the gamepad would allow it to be cut by $50 at most (they'd have to include the Pro Controller instead, which is worth about $50 less than the Gamepad).


What's turning gamers off is that the system has very few games. What's turning developers off is that the small audience means their games don't sell well. The Wiimote was far more complex to use and yet Wii got amazing support purely because it sold well.


Games are not a problem. The Wii U has a lot of great games. More than the Xbox and PS4. Yet it still doesn't sell.

No it doesn't. This is its first game of any importance since February. That might be better than the other systems, but it's still terrible. There's no reason to upgrade your system if it's only going to get you a couple new games.
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