Will you buy Mass Effect 4 if it's on Wii U?

#121LaManoNeraIIPosted 7/20/2014 3:39:02 PM
The poll is giving console gamers the finger

Why would I play ME4 on anything other than PC?
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R.I.P LaManoNera
04-06-2009
#122bandit__74Posted 7/20/2014 4:11:15 PM
Ghost-inZeShell posted...
bandit__74 posted...
@Ghost

I know what happened with the collectors and the story angle in ME2. I've beaten that game a dozen times. I understand all of those things you took pains to detail.


Then I'm not clear as to why you asked about them.

I meant, why introduce a story angle only to drop it later. There was supposed to be a point to the Collectors/Reapers harvesting humans. If it wasn't for the dark energy/human diversity ending, then what the hell was the point of the plot to ME2?

bandit__74 posted...
Allegedly human diversity and dark energy both played a large role in the original ending to ME3. That ending was leaked, so they scrapped it and went with the starchild nonsense.

I've read the "leaked" ending. It's rubbish. I like the ending that they went with much better.
Just out of asking, how YOU read the "leaked" original ending?
http://www.ign.com/blogs/mikeerik/2012/08/01/original-mass-effect-3-ending-spoilers/
Seriously?
Dark Energy is this evil magic that will destroy the universe... unless we let the Reapers harvest humanity.... HWAT?!

And then, you are given the choice between..
Paragon (Destroy the Reapers) or
Renegade (let the Reapers sacrifice humanity to the Dark Energy)

...and you're telling that, THAT was a better ending?

Yes, you're right. The whole "we are going to send synthetics to destroy/harvest you so that you don't get destroyed/harvested by synthetics" ending was much better.

At least the dark energy ending gave a non-apocryphal reason as to why the reapers were reaping (stupid as it may have been, at least it was internally consistent logically). Also, it explained why the reapers were harvesting humans in ME2. They needed the genetic diversity that humans alone had. Same reason the plague on Omega didn't affect humans but it did affect every other race.

In that ending, you were given a choice: Sacrifice Humanity to save the galaxy or destroy the reapers and find another solution. That would've been infinitely preferable to the the "control" or ugh, "synthesis" options. I doubt if any ending would've been satisfactory entirely, but the one we got was a let down on several levels.


bandit__74 posted...
And if dark energy really was just plot hole filler, than the starchild ending needed it more than anything...

Oh, you found a plot hole with the starchild ending. Do tell.


Really? Lol. You don't see any plot hole there?
#123Ghost-inZeShell(Topic Creator)Posted 7/21/2014 4:16:20 AM
bandit__74 posted...
Ghost-inZeShell posted...

bandit__74 posted...
And if dark energy really was just plot hole filler, than the starchild ending needed it more than anything...

Oh, you found a plot hole with the starchild ending. Do tell.


Really? Lol. You don't see any plot hole there?


Maybe I'm missing it.
Maybe I'm thicker than a concrete milkshake.
Please explain it to me.


Is it the AI on the Citadel?
I can't think of how that contradicts anything else in ME lore.

Is it that you're wonder why it didn't just call the Reapers in ME1? Instead of Sovereign or Saren?
It's sleep like the rest of the Reapers.
Surely the inhabitance of the Citadel would have discovered a big rogue AI on the station if it had been active, which is exactly why it dormant, to remain secret.
Normally, it's the Keepers that would have activated the Citadel, the Conduit, the Catalyst, and called the Reapers.
We learn at the end of ME1 from the Prothean VI that this is how it normally goes down, but the Protheans has sabotaged it for the next cycle, as one last 'screw-you' to the Reapers.
This is way it didn't happen this cycle, and when Sovereign came to check-in on things, it found that things had gone wrong, that the harvest was ready, but the Keepers were doing nothing.
That is why Sovereign had to activate the Citadel manually. That is why it indoctrinated Saren, as an agent.
That is why Sovereign was so bent on destroying Prothean beacons, because those things were ruining everything.
The whole harvest cycle going wrong was not a plot hole, it was the Protheans.

But maybe that's not the plot hole you are talking about. Maybe you mean something else.
Is it you are wondering about the Catalyst's logic?
Well, just to start, it's a crazy AI that wiped out the organics that created it, and turned them into Reapers.
But if you need to understand its reasons, that's fine.
You just brokered peace between the Geth and the Quarians, an impressive feat, but the Catalyst didn't seem to care.
Why is this? Because the Catalyst believes that the peace won't last. Fair enough, since it never does.
Beyond that, even if the Geth-Quarian peace does last for ever after, what if another organic race creates synthetics? Seems like only a matter of time, and there is still no solution.
Converting life from it's original form, into Reaper-form for the purpose of peace and to preserve them forever seems a little rash to us, but from the point-of-view of this AI, it is reasonable.
Life is like data, and turing it into reaper form is like saving that data to a hard drive.
When the Reaper are being killed, destroyed, it is clear that the solution will no longer work.
The Crucible creating other, better solutions, is thanks to every species that came before, each one add more and more to the design.

Now, I've heard of one more plot hole.
Why don't the Reapers just police the galaxy then? Instead of harvesting it?
If war between organics and synthetics is the problem, then why not create "Reaper law"?
Something along the lines of "Thou shall not create AIs".
Everything else is fine, but the Reapers just enforce that one rule.
It's clear that this didn't happen because the Catalyst didn't see it as a permanent solution, but why?
Because even with the Citadel creating the same exact law, it still didn't work.
Beyond that, life and technology would eventually surpass the Reapers, maybe even kill them, if left uncheck for too long.
#124WraithX_959Posted 7/21/2014 4:18:14 AM
No. I didn't even buy Mass 3.
#125Ghost-inZeShell(Topic Creator)Posted 7/21/2014 6:56:32 AM
I've read-up on some more "plot holes".

It is implied that Shepard "lived" (somehow) through the Citadel exploding.
Ok, that is some serious BS.
I think this was a fanservice for those who didn't want Shepard to die.
That should have been left out. The "ultimate choice" doesn't have meaning without the "ultimate sacrifice".
I didn't take that (ending) serious, because I choice Synthesis.
But for the record, yeah-no, there is no way in heck that Shepard lived through being blown-up on the biggest space station in space, and then falling back to earth, landing in the rumble.
Total BS. I'm actually surprised at how many people choose that ending, but whatever.

Next on the list...
Joker flying away from the explosion, and crashing on a jungle planet.
I hear reasoning that Joker would never leave the battle field, that he knew that is was it, the end.
Then I hear the opposite, that "duh" if he saw the Citadel blowing up in a giant explosion, of course he would, IDK... get away from the explosion. Can't fight if your dead from not moving out of the way.
Now, no matter which of these to tend to, I still chop-it-up to fanservice, they wanted to do the jungle-planet, pseudo Adam&Eve thing.
Again, like the "Shepard-maybe-lives" thing, this was intended to make fans happy.

Next...
Anderson making it to the beam.
I actually don't find this too farfetched.
Shepard made it to the beam, so why not Anderson, after-all, he was the one leading the earth resistance since it started.
"Following the Shepard? = IMPOSSIBRU!"
No, I can actually see that happening, and glad it did.
I remember that seen, and if he was not in front of me, I would not have seen him.

Next...
The misconception that the "Starchild" is the collective hivemind of all the Reapers.
No.
The Starchild is an AI (maybe a crazy AI) that thought it had a solution to the age old problem.
You do not agree with its solution (obviously) so you are given the choice of your own solution.
That doesn't contradict itself.

Beyond that, (and I address this in my previous post) is it's logic.
I've heard people argue that the logic doesn't make sense.
From the point-of-view {POV} of the organics being harvested, killed by synthetic life... so we don't get killed by synthetics.
But from who's POV is that? It's from the POV of the organics. The victimes.
But what about the POV of the Reapers, or most specifically, the AI who created and controls the Reapers.
It is seeing the problem from an entirely different POV.
If you have two sides, who each see a problem from a different POV, of course they are going to reach different solutions.
The AI's Point-Of-View is that life will naturally drive itself extinct.
By transforming life into Reapers, it is "preserving" that form of life.

Once again, the AI isn't the one being killed, so it does not see the situation from that angle.

Next...
No air in space.
Ok, this (like many "plot holes") was just something that was not explicitly explained.
You do not know what part of the Citadel you're at. I actually think that you are on a part of the Crucible.
It is a misconception that you are just on some random part of the hull. YOU'RE NOT!
You are specifically suppose to be there.
That is why the flowing platform lifted you up. It was designed to do that.

In conventional terms, glass, in sci-fi fantasy, fields.
Anything. You are specifically suppose to be there, obviously you can breath.
#126BahamutBBobPosted 7/21/2014 7:24:16 AM
I will buy Mass Effect if it's on Wii U.

I will buy mass Effect 4 if it is not on Wii U.

I have a PC that is capable of running it, and a PS4 that may or may not run it better.
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XBL / PSN: BahamutBBob
#127Ghost-inZeShell(Topic Creator)Posted 7/21/2014 7:32:01 AM
All of these "plot holes" can be explained. They are not just a result of lazy writing.
Most were misconception, something that the players got wrong. (go check the lore)
Other were just not explicitly explained to the player.
A few were fanservice, something unlike happened, but were there to make the player happy.


Now that I've explained just about every "plot hole", I want to address how silly it is even trying to poke plot holes into a sci-fi fantasy even is.

Bill said...
Einstein says you can't go faster than the speed of light.

Ted replied...
It the year 2XXX, they have FTL technology.

Bill says...
Ok, but how can they use magic, or the Force, this isn't Star Wars!

Bill replies...
It's Dark Energy (which is made-up) it is controlled by Element Zero (also made-up).
It's the same stuff that powers the Mass Effect Fields (very very made-up) and the Mass Relays.

(we can see Pluto, but not this big shiny artificial construct just past it, no seriously, and we can even see planets from other solar systems move in front of their stars, thus causing the star to "flicker" but the Mass Relay in our solar system never blocks out the star because... reasons)



Do you see how ridiculous it is arguing points in any sort of fantasy, sci-fi or otherwise.
I can just make up any sort of space-magic, call it something pseudo-scientific-sounding, and call it a day.

If this were a near-future sci-fi, we would all be saying "nanomachines son".
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/550/656/d43.jpg
#128Ghost-inZeShell(Topic Creator)Posted 7/21/2014 7:46:50 AM
So let me get this straight.

Role Play in a game through means of multiple choice questions.
No one bats an eye.
End the same game with a multiple choice question, and...
EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!

You play a game where you have FTL travel, and mass effect fields that can pretty much do anything.
No bats an eye.
In the same game, you are on a part of a station that you are suppose to be on, and implies you can breath.
Everyone loses their minds!

Insane giant robots killing all life for no reason?
No one bats an eye.
Give a reason, one that a crazy AI came up with...
Everyone loses their minds!

You (the protagonist) make it to a beam of light.
No one bats an eye.
An NPC does the same thing after you.
Everyone loses their minds!

Reapers want to kill all civilized life.
No one bats an eye.
Reapers want to "save" civilization by turning it into another one of themselves.
Everyone loses their minds!
#129Ghost-inZeShell(Topic Creator)Posted 7/21/2014 8:16:27 AM
***SPOILER WARNING IN ADVANCE***
I would normally use the spoiler tag in HTML but it would basically black out everything, so if you haven't play Mass Effect 2 or 3, just don't read any part of the post at all.



bandit__74 posted...

Ghost-inZeShell posted...

Then I'm not clear as to why you asked about them.


I meant, why introduce a story angle only to drop it later. There was supposed to be a point to the Collectors/Reapers harvesting humans. If it wasn't for the dark energy/human diversity ending, then what the hell was the point of the plot to ME2?


Did you forget the HUMAN REAPER!!!!
That big boss thing at the end. Yeah, that one. I know you know what I'm talking about.
It's kind of hard to forget.
They were harvesting humans... to make a HUMAN REAPER!!!

The diversity thing was why the Protheans were turned into the Collectors.
They were homogeneous. They did not have the genetic strength to make a strong Reaper.
So they were turned into a mindless slave race.

Humans do have genetic diversity, so they would make a strong Reaper.
We were being... given the "honor" to join them.
That is how the Reapers "reproduce". How they make more of themselves.

Mass Effect 2 concluded the big mystery before the end.
We knew why the Reapers reap, why they harvest.
The "angle" never changed, it was never dropped. It was EXPLAINED before ME3.


I know that you already know this, so I don't know why you are pretending that you don't.
You know of the Human Reaper. You knew that the Protheans where turned into the Collectors.
You know why their fates were chosen this way.
You know that Humans were chosen for a new Reaper because of genetics, but you pretend it wasn't explained.
You know that the Protheans were turned into slaves because they were homogeneous.
You know all of this, so what are you trying to pull?

I mean, you already know that at the end of ME2, Shepard destroyed the Reaper base (or gave it to Cerberus).
You already know that they were defeated on that front.
You already know that, now it's war. Once they defeat the might of the races, they would go back to harvesting to make more Reapers.
#130Stanger5150Posted 7/21/2014 8:30:07 AM
Ghost-inZeShell posted...
Speaking as in Independent, whenever I hear Republicans blaming the "Liberal Agenda" for everything, it just makes them sounds like a bunch of nuts, to me.

I was impressed that for all three Mass Effect games, how good the character development was.
Never was a character's sexuality, race, gender, or species, their sole defining characteristic.


This. Samantha doesn't even tell Male Shepard she is gay until he tries to hit on her. Before that, she just displays an attraction to EDI's voice.
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