Rate my idea for Nintendo's next console

#31iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 1:24:39 PM
Eoin posted...
What are you not sure of? That the Wii U is a fairly easy target for emulation? It should be, given that at that point, Nintendo will have been working with the basic chip for nearly 20 years. They should be able to emulate a machine that is not massively more powerful than an Xbox 360.


That's what I'm not sure of. I'm not sure the tech will advance as fast as it has in the past, and the Wii U wouldn't be able to be emulated.


Eoin posted...
Agreed. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that motion controls should be default. It may mean that you should seriously consider whether there really isn't a point in having them at all.


It absolutely should. They add very little cost, and have become a component of most gaming devices. Nintendo specifically still uses the technology quite a bit. I mean, the Wii made it very clear to me that motion control is the future of gaming. But it was still a fledgeling control scheme. It needs to be iterated upon like the NES controller was to apply to more genres.

That's not to say they should be the default in every system. That's stupid. If every system has the same technology there isn't a point to having more than one. But given Nintendo's use and history of the technology, it makes the most sense for them to push it forward.
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#32EoinPosted 7/23/2014 1:59:55 PM
iKhanic posted...
That's what I'm not sure of. I'm not sure the tech will advance as fast as it has in the past, and the Wii U wouldn't be able to be emulated.

A Nintendo console around PS5 level would be able to emulate the Wii U. We're talking about nearly two generational leaps here.

iKhanic posted...
They add very little cost, and have become a component of most gaming devices.

Neither of these is a particularly compelling argument.

Even if they don't cost much, the controller design may be suboptimal for traditional controls to accommodate the motion controls. This would be a bad design decision even if it wasn't an expensive one.

That other gaming devices are using them doesn't really matter, and I think you overstate the extent to which they're used on other consoles. How many games released this year for Vita, 3DS, PS4, PS3, Xbox 360 (Kinect), Xbox One, PC (Leap Motion or Kinect) or Wii U use motion controls to any great degree? I can think of a few - but nothing that would tempt me to include anything other than a traditional controller with a new system.

iKhanic posted...
But given Nintendo's use and history of the technology, it makes the most sense for them to push it forward.

Push it to where? What new uses do you foresee motion controls having? What can be done with them now that couldn't have been done with PlayStation Move and Wii Remote Plus? What amazing motion controlled experiences did we miss out on?
#33iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 2:19:04 PM
Tons. The Wii's motion controls really weren't accurate beyond recognizing where the remote is pointing or the fact that it was swinging. Lag was also considerably greater.

Both adding a Magnetometer and improving the quality of the accelerometer and gyro technology could dramatically improve the accuracy.

And that's a big deal because there is now more developers can do while still having the controls work. Imagine if Motion controls were 100% accurate, you could see fighters and beat-em ups using them. You could have sword combat that more resembles actual dueling. You could use it much more reliably as a pointer for strategy games. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Even if you didn't advance the technology, having a motion controlled system with much stronger power would allow games with giant worlds and destructible environments to offer the engagement and immersion of previous gen motion control.



Just looking at E3 the Wii U seems to still be interested in motion control. Given the way Star Fox and Splatoon control, and the two tech demos.

You're right though, the Vita, PS4, and XB1 don't use motion to any great extent. But that's more the fault of the developers than it is the fault of the control scheme. They are relying on a much safer and established scheme rather than trying to experiment and build a game around such an idea.

And you conveniently omitted mobile and arcade games, which use motion control the hell and back
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#34rajin_donutsPosted 7/23/2014 2:38:54 PM
Sorry, but the next device will be a gaming tablet with a streaming receiver for the tv that will take the place of the Wii U and 3DS. The home console market is dying. Mobile and portable are the future.
#35iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 2:44:07 PM
rajin_donuts posted...
Sorry, but the next device will be a gaming tablet with a streaming receiver for the tv that will take the place of the Wii U and 3DS. The home console market is dying. Mobile and portable are the future.


So you are saying people are just gonna stop playing games on their TVs? okay...

The home console market will always be around. It will just change forms. If game functions start to be taken up by Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV, you will see game companies adapt, just like arcade companies did.

That said, there needs to be companies that have something riding on those markets staying alive. That's part of why I always say Nintendo leaving the hardware market would be a tragedy. If games move away from traditional consoles, they can just phase their console division out and shift to where there are games.

Microsoft can do the same with software platforms. But as long as Nintendo's around, they will be forced to adapt to the changing industry climate. Not just give up.

I suppose if you are a pessimist you could say Nintendo is going the way of Blockbuster and Borders, but I doubt that.
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#36rajin_donutsPosted 7/23/2014 2:52:02 PM
iKhanic posted...
rajin_donuts posted...
Sorry, but the next device will be a gaming tablet with a streaming receiver for the tv that will take the place of the Wii U and 3DS. The home console market is dying. Mobile and portable are the future.


So you are saying people are just gonna stop playing games on their TVs? okay...

The home console market will always be around. It will just change forms. If game functions start to be taken up by Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV, you will see game companies adapt, just like arcade companies did.

That said, there needs to be companies that have something riding on those markets staying alive. That's part of why I always say Nintendo leaving the hardware market would be a tragedy. If games move away from traditional consoles, they can just phase their console division out and shift to where there are games.

Microsoft can do the same with software platforms. But as long as Nintendo's around, they will be forced to adapt to the changing industry climate. Not just give up.

I suppose if you are a pessimist you could say Nintendo is going the way of Blockbuster and Borders, but I doubt that.


Nintendo will do what they need to do to be viable in Japan first and foremost. Japan is all about mobile gaming with Google Play taking up huge chunks of the market. Nintendo needs to deal with that. This is why I think a tablet and streaming receiver are the way to go.
#37iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 2:57:07 PM
rajin_donuts posted...
iKhanic posted...
rajin_donuts posted...
Sorry, but the next device will be a gaming tablet with a streaming receiver for the tv that will take the place of the Wii U and 3DS. The home console market is dying. Mobile and portable are the future.


So you are saying people are just gonna stop playing games on their TVs? okay...

The home console market will always be around. It will just change forms. If game functions start to be taken up by Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV, you will see game companies adapt, just like arcade companies did.

That said, there needs to be companies that have something riding on those markets staying alive. That's part of why I always say Nintendo leaving the hardware market would be a tragedy. If games move away from traditional consoles, they can just phase their console division out and shift to where there are games.

Microsoft can do the same with software platforms. But as long as Nintendo's around, they will be forced to adapt to the changing industry climate. Not just give up.

I suppose if you are a pessimist you could say Nintendo is going the way of Blockbuster and Borders, but I doubt that.


Nintendo will do what they need to do to be viable in Japan first and foremost. Japan is all about mobile gaming with Google Play taking up huge chunks of the market. Nintendo needs to deal with that. This is why I think a tablet and streaming receiver are the way to go.


That's true, but a solid portion of Nintendo's business is the home console market, and the international market.

Unless they dramatically scale back the size of the company, they can't just drop home consoles. It would be like Apple dropping Desktops
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#38rajin_donutsPosted 7/23/2014 3:05:48 PM
iKhanic posted...
rajin_donuts posted...
iKhanic posted...
rajin_donuts posted...
Sorry, but the next device will be a gaming tablet with a streaming receiver for the tv that will take the place of the Wii U and 3DS. The home console market is dying. Mobile and portable are the future.


So you are saying people are just gonna stop playing games on their TVs? okay...

The home console market will always be around. It will just change forms. If game functions start to be taken up by Apple TV or Amazon Fire TV, you will see game companies adapt, just like arcade companies did.

That said, there needs to be companies that have something riding on those markets staying alive. That's part of why I always say Nintendo leaving the hardware market would be a tragedy. If games move away from traditional consoles, they can just phase their console division out and shift to where there are games.

Microsoft can do the same with software platforms. But as long as Nintendo's around, they will be forced to adapt to the changing industry climate. Not just give up.

I suppose if you are a pessimist you could say Nintendo is going the way of Blockbuster and Borders, but I doubt that.


Nintendo will do what they need to do to be viable in Japan first and foremost. Japan is all about mobile gaming with Google Play taking up huge chunks of the market. Nintendo needs to deal with that. This is why I think a tablet and streaming receiver are the way to go.


That's true, but a solid portion of Nintendo's business is the home console market, and the international market.

Unless they dramatically scale back the size of the company, they can't just drop home consoles. It would be like Apple dropping Desktops


I'm not saying Nintendo will necessarily drop the home console market. Think more along the lines of hybrid. You can still have console quality games, bluetooth controllers and the like if you wish to use them. I can already do this on my Shield. There is no reason Nintendo cannot.
#39Wii_TruthPosted 7/23/2014 3:10:49 PM
2018 release and 12gb ram?
Power PC Architecture?
Enhanced Wii Mote-okay, I like this one.

3/10.
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You want Wii Truth?! You can't handle Wii Truth!!!
#40EoinPosted 7/23/2014 3:44:00 PM
iKhanic posted...
Both adding a Magnetometer and improving the quality of the accelerometer and gyro technology could dramatically improve the accuracy.

The GamePad already has a magnetometer and motion sensors that are as good as any on the market. So does the Vita. So do just about all mobile phones. Where exactly do you imagine these improvements in accuracy are coming from? You're naming components that are the current standard.

iKhanic posted...
Imagine if Motion controls were 100% accurate, you could see fighters and beat-em ups using them. You could have sword combat that more resembles actual dueling. You could use it much more reliably as a pointer for strategy games. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Fighting games aren't suited to motion controls, because they are not "fighting" games. They are extremely fast simultaneous-turn-based strategy games with the imagery of fighting imposed on them. The real-life model of a round of Street Fighter or Tekken more closely resembles a card game than a physical fight. Making that motion controlled doesn't enhance it - it totally changes the game to the point where it's unrecognisable.

Sword combat - yeah, you can do a more realistic sword fighting game. The Wii Motion Plus had that covered fairly well though. Most of the limitations there aren't technical limitations that can be solved with better motion sensors - they're inherent limitations like the fact that you're holding a wand and not a sword, and you're not striking anything.

Oh, and as for pointers in strategy games: the Wii U has possibly the best console controller ever made for strategy games. There's no support for it. Why would a motion controller be any different?

iKhanic posted...
You're right though, the Vita, PS4, and XB1 don't use motion to any great extent. But that's more the fault of the developers than it is the fault of the control scheme. They are relying on a much safer and established scheme rather than trying to experiment and build a game around such an idea.

So what does your motion controller change? Developers rely on a safe, established scheme on those systems, but you're still giving them exactly that. So what changes that makes them suddenly move to motion controls?

iKhanic posted...
And you conveniently omitted mobile and arcade games, which use motion control the hell and back

I didn't "conveniently omit" anything.

Yeah, there's thousands of mobile games that use motion controls. Players generally hate them, and very few of them are among the most successful mobile games, but sure, they exist. Do any of them do anything that couldn't be done on Vita? Or on Wii U with the GamePad? If I completely ignored motion controlled mobile games, what would I be missing? Ridiculous Fishing and Giant Boulder of Death (both of which would be fine with traditional controls), some racing games (that would be massively superior with traditional controls) and what else?

I left out arcades because they're fairly close to irrelevant in most of the world, sadly. I don't believe that there's tons of new motion-controlled arcade games, and if there are, I can't imagine that they'd be the type of game that doesn't work on, say, a GamePad, but would work on an improved motion controller. You're welcome to correct me on that.