Rate my idea for Nintendo's next console

#61LvthnPosted 7/23/2014 10:14:37 PM
iKhanic posted...
Expect Sony and Microsoft to drop the Ethernet port by 2018 as well. Ethernet is dying. Fewer and fewer devices are using it every day. It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of keeping with the times.


What? Fewer and fewer devices like what, tablets? Is that what you're aiming to match? Or is there some new wired technology supplanting ethernet that I've failed to notice (always possible, I hardly know everything)?

I also want to point out, you are supposing a streaming service, over wifi only. And you don't see that being a nightmare? Not to mention, if you're going to shell out for a wireless card that CAN handle that, an ethernet port is going to be drastically cheaper to get the same result.

Needless to say, if the next generation of consoles expects me to game online over wifi, I will be done with consoles entirely with no regrets. Any industry that actively goes backwards in functionality deserves to die.
#62elheberPosted 7/23/2014 10:45:29 PM
Lvthn posted...
iKhanic posted...
Expect Sony and Microsoft to drop the Ethernet port by 2018 as well. Ethernet is dying. Fewer and fewer devices are using it every day. It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of keeping with the times.


What? Fewer and fewer devices like what, tablets? Is that what you're aiming to match? Or is there some new wired technology supplanting ethernet that I've failed to notice (always possible, I hardly know everything)?

I also want to point out, you are supposing a streaming service, over wifi only. And you don't see that being a nightmare? Not to mention, if you're going to shell out for a wireless card that CAN handle that, an ethernet port is going to be drastically cheaper to get the same result.

Needless to say, if the next generation of consoles expects me to game online over wifi, I will be done with consoles entirely with no regrets. Any industry that actively goes backwards in functionality deserves to die.


Sorry, dude, ethernet on consoles is going the way of the dodo. The difference in latency between wired and wireless is marginal, and nowhere near the lag inherent in cloud gaming, or even just the display lag on TVs.

Insisting on ethernet is like insisting on wired controllers.
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#63iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 10:47:35 PM
elheber posted...
Lvthn posted...
iKhanic posted...
Expect Sony and Microsoft to drop the Ethernet port by 2018 as well. Ethernet is dying. Fewer and fewer devices are using it every day. It's not a matter of being cheap, it's a matter of keeping with the times.


What? Fewer and fewer devices like what, tablets? Is that what you're aiming to match? Or is there some new wired technology supplanting ethernet that I've failed to notice (always possible, I hardly know everything)?

I also want to point out, you are supposing a streaming service, over wifi only. And you don't see that being a nightmare? Not to mention, if you're going to shell out for a wireless card that CAN handle that, an ethernet port is going to be drastically cheaper to get the same result.

Needless to say, if the next generation of consoles expects me to game online over wifi, I will be done with consoles entirely with no regrets. Any industry that actively goes backwards in functionality deserves to die.


Sorry, dude, ethernet on consoles is going the way of the dodo. The difference in latency between wired and wireless is marginal, and nowhere near the lag inherent in cloud gaming, or even just the display lag on TVs.

Insisting on ethernet is like insisting on wired controllers.


Wired controllers at least have the benefit of being cheaper.
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#64EoinPosted 7/23/2014 11:19:11 PM
iKhanic posted...
The Vita and Gamepad aren't in the correct form factor to use the Magnetometer for the precision I'm advocating for.

Please elaborate. I think you're trying to bluff your way out of not knowing that these controllers had magnetometers.

iKhanic posted...
And additional accuracy can come from accelerometers and gyroscopes that simply collect more data, to allow for a cleaner interpretation.

The accelerometers and gyroscopes on the market now are extremely precise and fast. They're fast enough that more data doesn't help a lot, and precise enough that the limitation is human precision, not machine precision.

iKhanic posted...
I disagree that they can't be used for fighting games.

Then we disagree. None of the fighting games I care about can be swapped over to motion controls. For me, even the possibility of a fighting game swapping to motion controls is a big negative.

iKhanic posted...
You didn't describe the problem of Wii Motion Plus in a sword fighting game though. Skyward Sword's controls really weren't all that accurate.

I never mentioned Skyward Sword, and no, you can't solve the problem of "not holding a sword" with a tiny little motor. A player holding the equivalent of just a hilt can do things that someone with a sword simply cannot, and any attempt to compensate for that necessarily breaks 1:1 motion controls. Even that's not so much of an issue though, since 1:1 controls will break anyway the moment that your character in-game hits something and you, in real life, artfully slice through thin air (or worse: vice versa).

iKhanic posted...
The Wii U isn't getting games period. Be it strategy, shooter, or puzzle. A system with a solid install base could easily get more games suited for its control scheme.

So where's our 3DS real time strategy games? It couldn't handle a modern one, but it'd be perfect for ports of older ones - yet none exist.
#65iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 11:52:44 PM(edited)
Eoin posted...
iKhanic posted...
The Vita and Gamepad aren't in the correct form factor to use the Magnetometer for the precision I'm advocating for.

Please elaborate. I think you're trying to bluff your way out of not knowing that these controllers had magnetometers.

iKhanic posted...
And additional accuracy can come from accelerometers and gyroscopes that simply collect more data, to allow for a cleaner interpretation.

The accelerometers and gyroscopes on the market now are extremely precise and fast. They're fast enough that more data doesn't help a lot, and precise enough that the limitation is human precision, not machine precision.

iKhanic posted...
I disagree that they can't be used for fighting games.

Then we disagree. None of the fighting games I care about can be swapped over to motion controls. For me, even the possibility of a fighting game swapping to motion controls is a big negative.

iKhanic posted...
You didn't describe the problem of Wii Motion Plus in a sword fighting game though. Skyward Sword's controls really weren't all that accurate.

I never mentioned Skyward Sword, and no, you can't solve the problem of "not holding a sword" with a tiny little motor. A player holding the equivalent of just a hilt can do things that someone with a sword simply cannot, and any attempt to compensate for that necessarily breaks 1:1 motion controls. Even that's not so much of an issue though, since 1:1 controls will break anyway the moment that your character in-game hits something and you, in real life, artfully slice through thin air (or worse: vice versa).


-I mean, isn't it obvious? You can't hold the Vita or Gamepad like a Sword or Bat. You can't use it to simulate punches. But putting a controller in a wand form factor. allows this type of gameplay to happen. I knew magnetometers were in the Gamepad. That's why I mentioned it in the first post. It's pretty restricted to what you can simulate with a giant pad.

-I have trouble believing that the Wii Remote + has these precise and fast accelerometers and gyroscopes. I love motion control to death, but I run into accuracy issues all the time even with a still hand. Also my knowledge in signal processing isn't great, but wouldn't it be possible to filter basic physiological shake and small involuntary movements?

-What are the negatives in switching some button presses to gestures if (theoretically), the input lag is removed and the accuracy was perfect?

-I never ran into any immersion issues with the breaking of one-to one in games like Skyward Sword. Like ever. The sound and rumble reaction was violent enough that I felt a close enough physical feedback.

Immersion doesn't have to come from perfect one-to-one pairings. That's why waggle and rumble work as immersive tools. Just by pairing real life motion of any kind with virtual motion, you get an effect that pulls you into the game.

-I don't have an answer to your last point. I'm scratching my head a bit now as to why the DS and 3DS haven't gotten more strategy games.
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#66Megamushroom666Posted 7/23/2014 11:42:48 PM
iKhanic posted...
Megamushroom666 posted...
Wii U is already competitively powerful


No it's not. It's not as big a gap as the Wii, but it's still pretty damn big. And it's not just that. Pre-Mario Kart 8, the Wii U was looking to sell about 15M units lifetime. For PS360 games, That's not worth the effort of a port, especially when it's a Nintendo system who's exclusive base has a high number of children.


Ok so once again, how is releasing another underpowered console with a dual Wiimote gonna fix that situation? If you're saying the problem with Wii U is its 'high number of children', I don't see how your concept console will be any different, just cause of higher specs (still lower than the competition) and a newfangled controller. Nintendo will still be developing the same rated E games. Third parties will still favor the more powerful consoles and skip the Wii U for their AAA games. So how are things gonna magically change?
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#67iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/23/2014 11:47:49 PM
Megamushroom666 posted...
iKhanic posted...
Megamushroom666 posted...
Wii U is already competitively powerful


No it's not. It's not as big a gap as the Wii, but it's still pretty damn big. And it's not just that. Pre-Mario Kart 8, the Wii U was looking to sell about 15M units lifetime. For PS360 games, That's not worth the effort of a port, especially when it's a Nintendo system who's exclusive base has a high number of children.


Ok so once again, how is releasing another underpowered console with a dual Wiimote gonna fix that situation? If you're saying the problem with Wii U is its 'high number of children', I don't see how your concept console will be any different, just cause of higher specs (still lower than the competition) and a newfangled controller. Nintendo will still be developing the same rated E games. Third parties will still favor the more powerful consoles and skip the Wii U for their AAA games. So how are things gonna magically change?


Because it's not underpowered. Its slightly less powerful to accomodate Nintendo's preference for efficiency and low price and the slight level of uniqueness. But it's competitive.

Nintendo needs to court 3rd parties out of the gate. Nintendo's exclusive base (as in people with just the Nintendo system) isn't mostly children because of their own games. It's mostly children because of the lack of 3rd party games. So an adult Nintendo fan would likely pick up a Nintendo system and a SonySoft system. So a 3rd Party still makes their money just releasing on the SonySoft system.

If the new system can have 3rd parties out of the gate and keep them, then there won't be a problem anymore.
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#68king_maddenPosted 7/23/2014 11:52:01 PM
Those subscriptions are brutal.

I only read OP, but no to both of those. Unlimited play for classics for $15 a month is a bit steep. Especially since the system will be BC, the people who like those older games you figure they would've bought them by now.

And $45 is still a ton, asking people to pay over $500 a year. Even for people that play a lot, they are usually the ones who trade or resell a ton so this is costing them much more than they would want to spend.

Also with this 128gb all this downloading is going to fill that up real quick, next thing you know you're deleting and redownloading constantly. Or trying to play huge games on an external hard drive which could be rough.
#69iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 7/24/2014 12:03:15 AM(edited)
king_madden posted...
Those subscriptions are brutal.

I only read OP, but no to both of those. Unlimited play for classics for $15 a month is a bit steep. Especially since the system will be BC, the people who like those older games you figure they would've bought them by now.

And $45 is still a ton, asking people to pay over $500 a year. Even for people that play a lot, they are usually the ones who trade or resell a ton so this is costing them much more than they would want to spend.

Also with this 128gb all this downloading is going to fill that up real quick, next thing you know you're deleting and redownloading constantly. Or trying to play huge games on an external hard drive which could be rough.


Yeah I screwed up the pricing. But what about the concept? Realistically it would still be more expensive than PSPlus of XBLG, because you get unlimited play of games that you have a choice over. It's not just 2 predetermined games per month. But definitely cheaper than what I said.
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"Well, they sure don't make evil immortal sorcerers like they used to." - Klarion the Witch Boy
#70king_maddenPosted 7/24/2014 12:22:11 AM
iKhanic posted...
king_madden posted...
Those subscriptions are brutal.

I only read OP, but no to both of those. Unlimited play for classics for $15 a month is a bit steep. Especially since the system will be BC, the people who like those older games you figure they would've bought them by now.

And $45 is still a ton, asking people to pay over $500 a year. Even for people that play a lot, they are usually the ones who trade or resell a ton so this is costing them much more than they would want to spend.

Also with this 128gb all this downloading is going to fill that up real quick, next thing you know you're deleting and redownloading constantly. Or trying to play huge games on an external hard drive which could be rough.


Yeah I screwed up the pricing. But what about the concept? Realistically it would still be more expensive than PSPlus of XBLG, because you get unlimited play of games that you have a choice over. It's not just 2 predetermined games per month. But definitely cheaper than what I said.


with a lower price its not a bad idea, but it would cost nintendo a ton in the long run, and possibly scare off devs. nintendo would have to pay devs quite a bit to offset the loss of sales they would have.

I dont see this working unless by modern games you mean games at least a year or 2 old.