Why do people argue that Smash Bros isn't a fighting game?

#101TerotrousPosted 7/30/2014 12:18:37 PM
jillwarren posted...
The Legend of Zelda... is an Action RPG.

RPGs require you to be able to power up your character at your discretion (ie, some form of grinding has to be possible). In Zelda, you can only get stronger by progressing farther in the game, which is the definition of Adventure Progression.


Please don't mistake people arguing over the application of the genre definitions as the genre definitions not existing at all.
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#102CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/30/2014 12:23:04 PM
Rishah0078 posted...
CHAINMAILLEKID posted...
Rishah0078 posted...
Because people want to shoehorn games into a single genre instead of allowing for subgenres and multigenre games. Look at this thread and you'll find plenty of these people.

Smash can't be a fighter because it's a party game? It can't be both? It can't be a subgenre party-fighter? Conversely, why can't people call it a party game? It can only be a fighting game?

People are doing the same with Metroid Prime. It can't be a FPS? Why? Because it doesn't play like every other FPS? Because there's adventuring so it is an FPA end of discussion? I'm in first-person and shooting is one of the most important aspects of the game. Why can't it be both? Why can't it be a FPSA?

I see some rational people here, but seriously, can somebody tell me why so many people think everything has to fit neatly into its little box no matter how many aspects of the game have to be ignored? And does anybody know when it was decided who would get to decide which parts of a game we choose to forget about when categorizing these things?


I detest the idea of smash as a "Party Game" in any form.

Actually, I detest the category of party game as a whole, All it has come to mean in gaming, is how many people can play. People create the atmosphere of the party, not really the game so much.

Oh, and even been to a local figher tourny? Thats a party. thats SUCH a party.


I don't really like party as a genre either since it has little to do with actual game mechanics, but I'm not gonna complain about other people calling it that because I understand where there coming from.

And every tourney I've been to has been fantastic. I've never been to a fighter, but I would assume it's the same.


If people call it that in passing, or casually in discussion, yeah, no problem with that.

But if people try to press that on me, or begin being incessant, then I'm going to start complaining.


I didn't mean it's a party in a negative sense. I can't say EVERY tourny I've been to has been fantastic, but yeah. They great generally.
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#103n00bsaib0tPosted 7/30/2014 12:32:44 PM
8waystomonday posted...
n00bsaib0t posted...
DarkAdonis123 posted...
GamingLablet posted...
I dont get it. You fight opponents. The goal is to win. It has fighting game elements. It's not a traditional fighter, but it's still a fighting game

why do people argue it isn't a fighter? ridiculous comments such as "it's a brawler or party game" make me facepalm.


Sakurai has said on record more than once that Smash isn't a fighting game and is a party game. If he says it's not, it's not. I'm going to take the word of the guy at the helm of the project over a random guy on gamefaqs.
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So if I own a restaurant and someone orders the steak but they are brought chicken, but I said its a steak, it's no longer chicken?


If a person writes a book and calls it a horror story but then others on the internet call it a action story who's word are you taking more serious.


Depends on the circumstances. If the book, at its core, was pure action with nothing scary what so ever, then it's hardly a horror book now is it?

At its core, Smash is a fighter. Every element in it is present in other fighting games. They might have intended for it to be played at parties, but it's a fighting game in every way.

Platforming? Power Stone.
Items? Mortal Kombat, Power Stone.
Ring Outs? Soulcalibur, Virtua Fighter.
1v1v1v1? Power Stone, Guilty Gear, Street Fighter x Tekken, Street Fighter Alpha and EX allows 3 on screen at once for 2v1 which Smash also does.
Interactive Environments? DOA, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Soulcalibur, Tekken.
Final Smash (supers)? Oh god. Art of Fighting, Street Fighter, KOF, Fatal Fury, Last Blade, Soulcalibur, Mortal Kombat, Injustice.

What aspect of Smash isn't found in other fighters? I can't think of any.
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#104jillwarrenPosted 7/30/2014 12:41:51 PM
Terotrous posted...
jillwarren posted...
The Legend of Zelda... is an Action RPG.

RPGs require you to be able to power up your character at your discretion (ie, some form of grinding has to be possible). In Zelda, you can only get stronger by progressing farther in the game, which is the definition of Adventure Progression.


Please don't mistake people arguing over the application of the genre definitions as the genre definitions not existing at all.


It was just an attempt at some humor in a thread that has gotten pretty silly. Feel free to ignore it.
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#105CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/30/2014 12:53:55 PM
Watch the extra credits episode on genres.

The gameplay fundamentals of smash, are the same as with any other fighting game.

And watch the "James Recommends" episode on Dropkick. Which talks about the way fighters play in their quintessential form. Talks about the way fighting games play, and how it is experienced by the player, once you reach the level of play where the barrier of learning combos, and developing muscle memory is overcome.

Smash Bros really fits VERY well within the fighting genre, It is only once you back away from fundamentals that differences begin appearing.

In my first post, I said the problem is, people don't understand genres.
This is really what it is.

Genre defines the type of gameplay experience delivered, NOT the means by which it is delivered.
The fact that SSB has characters fighting ISN'T what makes it a fighting game.

And with Metroid Prime.
The fact that the view is first person, and you have a shooter, does NOT make it a FPS. If it is in the family of FPS, the camera choice is not what makes it so.


Traditional fighter fans are very aware of the formula of a traditional fighting game, but the formula isn't what makes their games fighters.
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#106CHAINMAILLEKIDPosted 7/30/2014 12:58:53 PM
Terotrous posted...
jillwarren posted...
The Legend of Zelda... is an Action RPG.

RPGs require you to be able to power up your character at your discretion (ie, some form of grinding has to be possible). In Zelda, you can only get stronger by progressing farther in the game, which is the definition of Adventure Progression.


This isn't actually necessarily true.

Levels w/ griding are a means to an end. RPGs are RPGs, not because of the level system itself, but because of what the level system brings to the game.
But, the relationship is treated as being synonymous.

just to re-enforce my earlier point.
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#107BurgerTime79Posted 7/30/2014 1:01:27 PM
It's a different style of fighting game that most people are quick to associate with the term. It's still a fighting game.
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#108Lefty128kPosted 7/30/2014 2:35:04 PM
Granadico_ posted...
I'm more affected by the fact that you make statements trying to prove people wrong without proving anything or your own argument.


Maybe you could have asked me to explain why I thought so, but petulant disrespect is all you could muster.

Fail more, Fanboy.
#109Bahamut_10thPosted 7/30/2014 2:38:45 PM
Because the game has hazardous items and stages on top of fighters. It also isn't about reducing your opponent's life meter. The special moves are made to be easily performed instead of requiring different combinations of buttons.
And it's also not combo-friendly at all, no matter what Melee fanboys think.
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#110TwistedMaestroPosted 7/30/2014 2:43:14 PM
At it's core, it's a party game. It only became a fighting game because there was an extreme lack of fighting games on the gamecube, so the nintendo community decided to turn it into a competitive fighting game using it's gameplay mechanics. That's why you never see smash players play other competitive fighting games that actually require skill and do well at major tournies.