"God grants you one wish... To turn back the time..." 8 years ago today ='(

#51ParaSpartanPosted 11/10/2012 3:18:16 AM
awesomephatman posted...
Do we need to see something first-hand to know it's true? No, there are experts in various topics of the world that we can read on Wikipedia, and in history books, etc. and due to their credibility we can know things to be true. If you don't trust anyone with anything, you'll have an extremely small spectrum of things you know to be true.



This, right here, is the flaw in your logic.

All of the facts that are read about and accepted about our world and our past are not things that we know to be true but are rather things that we, after being presented with evidence, accept to be true. Many of these accepted truths are likely not entirely factual as the truth is often distorted by time and the men and women who record it. Accepted truths, usually about our history, are proven false and reshaped often through the discovery of new evidence.

Knowing something to be true requires personal experience. Everything else is a collection of accepted truths that we accept due to supporting evidence.

Do you know that Julius Caesar was murdered by Brutus and others? No, you weren't there, but substantial supporting evidence favors that conclusion and so it becomes an accepted truth.
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#52awesomephatmanPosted 11/10/2012 3:19:45 AM
iXCelticXi posted...
It's kind of funny how hard it is, when it comes to this sort of thing, to differentiate the folks who are trolling from the folks who actually believe some bastard got two of everything and shoved 'em on a boat.


I'm not trolling.
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#53ParaSpartanPosted 11/10/2012 3:19:53 AM
iXCelticXi posted...
It's kind of funny how hard it is, when it comes to this sort of thing, to differentiate the folks who are trolling from the folks who actually believe some bastard got two of everything and shoved 'em on a boat.


Troll or not this conversation has got me thinking and reflecting so it is time well spent. Good pondering material is good.
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Sonic the Hedgehog FTW!
#54totheend300Posted 11/10/2012 3:22:17 AM
awesomephatman posted...
totheend300 posted...
awesomephatman posted...
totheend300 posted...
Yeah, and I saw Santa Claus put presents under the tree when I was younger. I am now a Santa Clausian and really think Heaven is the South Pole. I had a personal experience with Santa so it makes my beliefs legitimate, therefore no one can question me. Right?


Hahaha. We both know you're just making that up, though.


Right, but that's what an atheist thinks when he/she reads about your experience. Religion is a choice and you don't need to share it with everybody in the world. I prefer milk chocolate over dark chocolate but I don't feel the need to convince dark chocolate lovers to convert to milk chocolate loving. They are YOUR beliefs so keep them to yourself. I've had a lot of people try to convince me of God and it only makes me resentful so save your posts and let this topic move back to this poor TC.


By that logic no one would share with anyone about anything. No one would share about what games they liked. Discussion would be fruitless.

How else is the truth going to spread? Sometimes, we need to be informed of the truth by other people. Do we need to see something first-hand to know it's true? No, there are experts in various topics of the world that we can read on Wikipedia, and in history books, etc. and due to their credibility we can know things to be true. If you don't trust anyone with anything, you'll have an extremely small spectrum of things you know to be true.

Edit: I'll also say, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. By all means, believe what you want to believe.


This "truth" you speak of is your opinion. What games people like is their opinion. They can share that opinion, I don't care. Same goes with religion, but don't try to act like it is a universal truth.

I don't need a first hand experience, I need evidence. We have evidence of science, that's why Religion isn't a science. You have no evidence of God. That is what your kind preaches. Having faith without evidence is one hell of a faith. But i'm a logical person, so I will never be able to believe that. I know you all have automated messages for every atheist argument so save me another response.

I'm going to stop arguing because no one wants to see this on a video game board.
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Life is a beach.
#55awesomephatmanPosted 11/10/2012 3:23:45 AM
ParaSpartan posted...
This, right here, is the flaw in your logic.

All of the facts that are read about and accepted about our world and our past are not things that we know to be true but are rather things that we, after being presented with evidence, accept to be true. Many of these accepted truths are likely not entirely factual as the truth is often distorted by time and the men and women who record it. Accepted truths, usually about our history, are proven false and reshaped often through the discovery of new evidence.

Knowing something to be true requires personal experience. Everything else is a collection of accepted truths that we accept due to supporting evidence.

Do you know that Julius Caesar was murdered by Brutus and others? No, you weren't there, but substantial supporting evidence favors that conclusion and so it becomes an accepted truth.


I was just making an analogy, and no analogy is perfect.

A lot of knowledge, including the existence of God, can be experienced firsthand. By your logic, I don't know for a fact that submarines can submerge underwater. I've never seen it happen, but actually, I pretty much know it to be true. I'm 99.9% sure of it.
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#56WheezinEdPosted 11/10/2012 3:24:05 AM
Stop falling for such an obvious troll, he's making you look like idiots.

Anyway,

From: PharoahPelican | #019
At least you got married and have friends. I went through college, tried my best to have a social life, failed miserably, and now I can't even land a job that isn't a POS minimum wage thing that I could have done if I had dropped out of high school, and because I went to college I have so much debt that I can't even move out on my own at 23 years old. Be thankful for what you have.

>falling for the college scam and thinking you're too good for a minimum wage job

You're the reason the American economy is ****, I hope you realize that. Get a ****ing job.



And TC, here:

http://codehpro.com/

Come join us on the PC version of Halo 2 sometime.
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#57awesomephatmanPosted 11/10/2012 3:25:59 AM
totheend300 posted...
I don't need a first hand experience, I need evidence. We have evidence of science, that's why Religion isn't a science. You have no evidence of God. That is what your kind preaches. Having faith without evidence is one hell of a faith. But i'm a logical person, so I will never be able to believe that. I know you all have automated messages for every atheist argument so save me another response.


Automated messages? No. It's saddens me that you would say that.

I'm just a man.
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I was floating in a peaceful sea, rescued by a sinking ship
#58ParaSpartanPosted 11/10/2012 3:43:03 AM(edited)
WheezinEd posted...
Stop falling for such an obvious troll, he's making you look like idiots.


Ahem:

ParaSpartan posted...
Troll or not this conversation has got me thinking and reflecting so it is time well spent. Good pondering material is good.




awesomephatman posted...
A lot of knowledge, including the existence of God, can be experienced firsthand. By your logic, I don't know for a fact that submarines can submerge underwater. I've never seen it happen, but actually, I pretty much know it to be true. I'm 99.9% sure of it.


God can be experienced first-hand, perhaps, but has not by a significant portion of humanity. This is not a matter of people ignoring a stimuli that would lead them towards experiencing a God first-hand, it just simply hasn't happened for everyone like you believe it has happened for you.

This lack of a universal experience prevents a God from being a universal reality; it exists only to those that believe it exists.

In this case, to you, God is an absolute truth that you have experienced; you know God to exist. For those that have not experienced a God and have no personal experience of a God, such a truth would be the same as your submarine analogy; it would be an accepted truth based on evidence rather than personal experience. The problem with this is that the only evidence that those without a personal experience have been presented with is anecdotal (people like you stating that a God exists) and anecdotal evidence is almost never enough to prove anything true or false.

This goes both ways. Those without personal experience have no clearly relevant evidence to prove your truth false. They simply know through the lack of a personal interaction with a God that such a God does not exist. They believe that God does not exist though they cannot prove their belief any more than you can prove yours.

Both those who believe in God and those who do not simply have beliefs, not universal truths, behind their sentiments. Neither is incorrect nor correct.

We have come full circle.

Good night, and I wish you further pondering and introspection.
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Sonic the Hedgehog FTW!
#59JolteonPosted 11/10/2012 3:47:01 AM
From: MarkGasoreo23 | #026
Though you may not be able to understand because you are not married, it is probably the biggest mistake I have made in my life, literally the only positive is there are no children yet who would suffer because of our marital problems.

While I'm not unsympathetic to your situation, your phrasing suggests that anybody who IS married would be able to understand the magnitude of the mistake you've made. At the risk of sounding overly harsh, just because you might have married the wrong person, that doesn't mean every other married man is in the same boat. My wife is awesome. She actually insisted that she pause her movie and let me play Halo 4 until I had to go to work tonight, because she knew I'd been looking forward to it, and she says that Halo is one of the few games she actually enjoys watching (the other one is Zelda, actually).

I feel bad for you that you're not happy, but things aren't gonna get better unless you start trying to make them better. Pining for the past, while totally understandable, isn't helping anything.
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Is this finally a conundrum that CAN'T be solved by helicopter theft?
#60WheezinEdPosted 11/10/2012 3:48:00 AM
From: ParaSpartan | #058
Ahem:

Oldest excuse in the book.
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