i believe the DMR's rate of fire should be lowered

#31jakisthePosted 11/27/2012 9:56:20 PM
I cannot comprehend how people are defending the unbalanced nature of STARTING weapons. It makes no sense. And yeah, I understand Halo is a game of different weapons.
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#32The BeansterPosted 11/27/2012 9:58:24 PM
Nated posted...
Halo 4 has the most potential at launch of any Halo release yet IMO

Halo 2 matchmaking was entirely SMG start until at least six months after release and Bungie clearly weren't thinking competitive with the addition of bloom

343 at least recognizes that precision starting weapons is how the game should be played and bloom is terrible


Yeah... but the lack of a ranked/social playlist distinction, instant respawns, ordinance drops + no regular weapons on map, and to a lesser extent loadouts all work against the game being truly competitive. Competitive Halo play since H2 has been based around map/PW control, and H4 removed that element and put nothing back in its place to center competitive play around.

I think Halo 4 is worlds better than Reach ever was (although I did enjoy ZBNS Reach somewhat), but I'm not convinced that it has the potential of the original trilogy for competition at either a matchmaking or tournament level. I'm less convinced of its potential for matchmaking competition (which I care about) than its potential for tournament competition (which I don't)
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#33The BeansterPosted 11/27/2012 10:01:46 PM
jakisthe posted...
I cannot comprehend how people are defending the unbalanced nature of STARTING weapons. It makes no sense. And yeah, I understand Halo is a game of different weapons.


When everyone has the option to pick DMR, it is not accurate to say that "the starting weapons are unbalanced"

I understand that people like the idea of being able to pick from any of 4 rifles and be assured that they are at no advantage or disadvantage either way. However, given what Halo is, I don't understand all this DMR nerf talk... you already have more viable alternatives to the dominant gun than you ever did in a previous Halo game. Yet still you all cry.

If something MUST change, the BR/Carbine should be buffed a bit. That's a far better solution than a DMR nerf (which btw would necessitate a LR nerf...)
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#34xoAxeloxPosted 11/27/2012 10:08:28 PM
The Beanster posted...
Sure, 3-shotting across Blood Gulch wasn't common, but you're not going to be 5-shotting someone with a DMR all the way across Ragnarok either.


yes you are?

the aim assist on the dmr is ridiculously high and the reticule is extremely small on top of that

aim assist on the CE pistol was very low and the reticule was large. faster kill times does not equate to better gameplay... CE was bungies first attempt at a halo game and obviously it had its flaws
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#35jakisthePosted 11/27/2012 10:14:03 PM
Halo being a game about gun control and response to unknown situations. By making all but one of those guns bad options, you remove gunplay, variability, and novel situations. For instance, simplified greatly:
-player A and player B have a goal. They have 2 ways to reach that goal.
-player A and player B have a goal. They have 1 way to reach that goal.

Which seems more likely to lead to interesting, competitive play?

As I said, simplified. But making all but the DMR a generally bad choice is the extrapolated version of that.
Also, there are plenty of ways to nerf the DMR but keep it at the same TTK.
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#36_BakasamaPosted 11/27/2012 10:18:03 PM
jakisthe posted...

Also, there are plenty of ways to nerf the DMR but keep it at the same TTK.


I believe long ago when they were talking about adding the BR in again alongside the DMR, they said the DMR would reward patient players with heightened accuracy, and would challenge players by forcing them to learn the exact moment the accuracy cooled down on it for it to be fully accurate again. They went on to say that the BR would be fully accurate with a large cooldown, offering less versatility, but also getting rid of the need to pay attention to the accuracy cooldown.

If they made the DMR do more damage, and made it even less accurate on cooldown (while keeping the same TTK), maybe it'd work out.
#37The BeansterPosted 11/27/2012 10:18:03 PM
xoAxelox posted...
The Beanster posted...
Sure, 3-shotting across Blood Gulch wasn't common, but you're not going to be 5-shotting someone with a DMR all the way across Ragnarok either.


yes you are?

the aim assist on the dmr is ridiculously high and the reticule is extremely small on top of that

aim assist on the CE pistol was very low and the reticule was large. faster kill times does not equate to better gameplay... CE was bungies first attempt at a halo game and obviously it had its flaws


Aim assist was only low on the CE pistol at distances too great for the reticle to turn red. If you were close enough to have the reticle red, bullet magnetism kicked in pretty hard, just like it does with the DMR in H4 when your reticle is red.

Anyways, someone would have to go test it to know for sure, but I'd be shocked if the effective range of the DMR were greater than the effective range of the CE Pistol.

Faster kill times do not necessarily equate to better gameplay, as you can eventually reach a certain point where it's just silly. However, slow kill times such as there were in Reach just draw things out, and with the inclusion of AAs and sprint necessitates fast kill times or you just wind up with this boring snoozefest of a game, like Reach, where it is simply far too easy to get yourself out of a bad situation.

The ~1.5 second mark is just about right for H4, and there is absolutely no legitimate gameplay reason to nerf the DMR to make it slower than that.
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#38The BeansterPosted 11/27/2012 10:22:12 PM
_Bakasama posted...
If they made the DMR do more damage, and made it even less accurate on cooldown (while keeping the same TTK), maybe it'd work out.


I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that bloom return to its Reach levels.... that was one of the most dumbfoundingly stupid mechanics in any Halo game.
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#39_BakasamaPosted 11/27/2012 10:24:48 PM
The Beanster posted...
_Bakasama posted...
If they made the DMR do more damage, and made it even less accurate on cooldown (while keeping the same TTK), maybe it'd work out.


I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that bloom return to its Reach levels.... that was one of the most dumbfoundingly stupid mechanics in any Halo game.


I didn't play a lot of Reach for some reason (no real... reason behind it, just didn't) So ah.
If you think what I'm saying is the DMR should have widely altered accuracy when fired, yes. I mean that. I mean you should wait between shots and be rewarded for it.
#40The BeansterPosted 11/27/2012 10:28:27 PM
_Bakasama posted...
The Beanster posted...
_Bakasama posted...
If they made the DMR do more damage, and made it even less accurate on cooldown (while keeping the same TTK), maybe it'd work out.


I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that bloom return to its Reach levels.... that was one of the most dumbfoundingly stupid mechanics in any Halo game.


I didn't play a lot of Reach for some reason (no real... reason behind it, just didn't) So ah.
If you think what I'm saying is the DMR should have widely altered accuracy when fired, yes. I mean that. I mean you should wait between shots and be rewarded for it.


I agree in theory but think it would be too difficult to pull off well without returning to one of the big problems that Reach had (and one which is far, far, far, FAR worse than the issue of the BR being slightly weaker than the DMR): DMR battles being determined by luck and thus rewarding spam over pacing even though the *intent* of the weapon's design is to encourage pacing.
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