Remind me again why Reach was bad

#41jakisthePosted 12/2/2012 2:19:57 PM
All these years, and I still don't understand what the issue was with the bloom. So you shot slower. And...?
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#42Solid_Snake124Posted 12/2/2012 2:26:37 PM
BansheeNTDmode posted...
Dmr bloom
Armor lock abusers
Jet pack flight length
Crappy graphics
Sprint as a power
No BR
Needle rifle was useless
Lots of lag compensation
The list goes on...

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#43Scooby510Posted 12/2/2012 2:26:39 PM
So many bad players in this topic.
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#44EliteGuard99Posted 12/2/2012 2:27:29 PM
Demon Slicer posted...
I feel like I've posted this 32907923 times but apparently people still don't get it so:

Precision weapons have one function that is inherent to their very nature; they are supposed to provide the player with a reliable weapon that demands and rewards accuracy. Bloom is the antithesis to both of these tenets; it reduces reliability and reduces accuracy.

But! You may scream; the weapon is perfectly accurate and reliable when you control the bloom. I agree, however, there is one major problem; shooting while bloomed does not ensure you will miss. In fact, shooting with slight bloom is preferable the majority of the time due to the rate of fire benefits. Suddenly, our precision weapon has neither precision nor reliability when used most effectively. At that point, it is no longer a precision weapon but it still rewards headshots, which are now almost completely random. The outcome of two players aiming exactly the same and shooting exactly the same is random, which is unacceptable for low damage precision weapon.

The role of bloom is to punish players for missing shots and spamming the trigger. The more you miss and spam, the less accurate your gun becomes. While this is a decent principle in general, it requires weapons that can kill quickly to operate properly. In Reach, bloom doesn't just punish missed shots, it punishes everyone because it is literally impossible to kill someone with the DMR or Pistol before bloom becomes a factor. What this means is that in every 1v1 encounter, bloom is going to be the determining factor; you either spam your shots and play the odds, or you pace your shots and risk the other player's odds. Either way, chance is what determines the outcome.

With such lengthy kill times and bloom playing such a central role, many players have fallen back on the argument that "controlling" bloom is a skill. Controlling the bloom is not so much a skill as it is a risk assessment and risk tolerance test; essentially risk management of a randomize outcome. A "skill" implies that you can increase your aptitude with experience and practice, which is simply not the case with bloom. Because of the inverse relationship between accuracy and rate of fire, you will never be able to rely on non-random elements in a firefight. As I pointed out earlier, even if you pace your shots completely, the enemy may choose to spam: chance enters the equation. Unless both players begin shooting at the exact same moment, it will always be beneficial for one player to spam.

There is no "perfect" bloom level that a player can fully rely on; if you choose to shoot at a medium pace to marginalize the effects of bloom, someone could choose to shoot at a rapid pace and beat you. There is nothing you can do to change that. That is not skill, its accepting a certain amount of randomization. That is never good for a competitive title and is unacceptable for the primary utility weapon.

Regardless, let's pretend it is a skill. Does that mean that the skill value of controlling bloom is greater than the skill of controlling precision shots? The punishment for mismanaging bloom is not as severe as it is for missing a shot; mismanaged bloom, no matter how extreme, still gives the player a chance to win the fight. Missing a shot with a true precision weapon leaves no chance in the equation. If controlling bloom is a skill, it's a secondary skill at best because you can never master it to such a degree that you can fully rely on it.

Not only does bloom destroy the basic function of Reach's precision weapons, it encourages players to bring random chance into every battle. While bloom isn't inherently unacceptable, it is when you combine it with the kill speed of the DMR and Pistol. Random chance should never be a fundamental aspect of Halo's utility weapon.


A perfect argument, good job!
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"I like my weapons how I like my music, HEAVY and METAL! - Mordekaiser
#45Echoe_ACPosted 12/2/2012 2:31:26 PM
Bloom was made in the name of balance, and it did. People whining about bloom are the same people whining now that the DMR is op.
#46SahdukPosted 12/2/2012 2:33:00 PM
jakisthe posted...
All these years, and I still don't understand what the issue was with the bloom. So you shot slower. And...?


this is why you should never try to explain things to people. right here.
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#47KotomineKireiPosted 12/2/2012 2:49:21 PM
danger_sHarKs posted...
I never hated the game, I popped it in just this morning to see how it stacks up against Halo 4, and lo and behold; I'm getting ten times the kills I get in H4. Apart from people leaving my team in almost every game, I once again remembered how fun this game really was over the years.


So...getting more kills = more fun?

I don't think that's true, because in every Call of Duty game that I've played, I usually was at the top of my team, and I hated that series(excluding 4 and 5), very much so.

Same thing with Reach, but I didn't hate it, it just felt boring.
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"EVENT ENDED!"
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#48ajko000Posted 12/2/2012 2:54:22 PM
I always hated how the weapons in that game shot clear away from where you actually aimed.

inb4controlurfire

I'm not a wannabe jarhead, I'm a guy who wants to play a science FICTION shooter and have fun.

Thankfully Halo 4 has awesome weapons, but I became bored of the entire game within a week of playing. I suppose the series just got boring for me now :i.
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#49Super_Jedi7Posted 12/2/2012 3:12:44 PM
I thought it was fun. I played this the most out of any halo game but I barley played halo 3 online and I never played Halo 2 online before. Its hard to compare this as being bad to anything if I don't know much else.
#50F_WolfPosted 12/2/2012 3:26:09 PM
Demon Slicer posted...
I feel like I've posted this 32907923 times but apparently people still don't get it so:

Precision weapons have one function that is inherent to their very nature; they are supposed to provide the player with a reliable weapon that demands and rewards accuracy. Bloom is the antithesis to both of these tenets; it reduces reliability and reduces accuracy.

But! You may scream; the weapon is perfectly accurate and reliable when you control the bloom. I agree, however, there is one major problem; shooting while bloomed does not ensure you will miss. In fact, shooting with slight bloom is preferable the majority of the time due to the rate of fire benefits. Suddenly, our precision weapon has neither precision nor reliability when used most effectively. At that point, it is no longer a precision weapon but it still rewards headshots, which are now almost completely random. The outcome of two players aiming exactly the same and shooting exactly the same is random, which is unacceptable for low damage precision weapon.

The role of bloom is to punish players for missing shots and spamming the trigger. The more you miss and spam, the less accurate your gun becomes. While this is a decent principle in general, it requires weapons that can kill quickly to operate properly. In Reach, bloom doesn't just punish missed shots, it punishes everyone because it is literally impossible to kill someone with the DMR or Pistol before bloom becomes a factor. What this means is that in every 1v1 encounter, bloom is going to be the determining factor; you either spam your shots and play the odds, or you pace your shots and risk the other player's odds. Either way, chance is what determines the outcome.

With such lengthy kill times and bloom playing such a central role, many players have fallen back on the argument that "controlling" bloom is a skill. Controlling the bloom is not so much a skill as it is a risk assessment and risk tolerance test; essentially risk management of a randomize outcome. A "skill" implies that you can increase your aptitude with experience and practice, which is simply not the case with bloom. Because of the inverse relationship between accuracy and rate of fire, you will never be able to rely on non-random elements in a firefight. As I pointed out earlier, even if you pace your shots completely, the enemy may choose to spam: chance enters the equation. Unless both players begin shooting at the exact same moment, it will always be beneficial for one player to spam.

There is no "perfect" bloom level that a player can fully rely on; if you choose to shoot at a medium pace to marginalize the effects of bloom, someone could choose to shoot at a rapid pace and beat you. There is nothing you can do to change that. That is not skill, its accepting a certain amount of randomization. That is never good for a competitive title and is unacceptable for the primary utility weapon.

Regardless, let's pretend it is a skill. Does that mean that the skill value of controlling bloom is greater than the skill of controlling precision shots? The punishment for mismanaging bloom is not as severe as it is for missing a shot; mismanaged bloom, no matter how extreme, still gives the player a chance to win the fight. Missing a shot with a true precision weapon leaves no chance in the equation. If controlling bloom is a skill, it's a secondary skill at best because you can never master it to such a degree that you can fully rely on it.

Not only does bloom destroy the basic function of Reach's precision weapons, it encourages players to bring random chance into every battle. While bloom isn't inherently unacceptable, it is when you combine it with the kill speed of the DMR and Pistol. Random chance should never be a fundamental aspect of Halo's utility weapon.


So...you sucked at it, so it must be bad, got it.