halo's plot holes

#51Nintendo_toPosted 12/4/2012 8:07:34 AM
zyxomma100 posted...
From: ArcGuard | #040
Are you telling em when you saw the covenant in Halo 1, you knew who they are? Are you saying when you saw master Chief in Halo 1, you knew why he was such a big threat and why he was so super? No. You know now. Why? Because you kept playing the games and learned.

That's not even close to the same thing. You're comparing unknown information (in H1) to information that seems to contradict what we know about the universe (in H4). You're comparing the fact that no one knew what the Halos did (in H1), to the fact that everyone knows what happened between H3 and H4 but no one seems to want to let the goddamn player know this vital information (in H4).

Sure, it makes sense that we're fighting a rogue group of Covenant. But how do we know that's what this is? As far as we know, the humans and Sangheili are in a friendly but tenuous relationship at the start of H4. So when all of a sudden we're fighting Covenant with barely a second thought, alarm bells start ringing when you realize it doesn't make sense.

The only mention to it is Cortana making a barely educated guess as to the rogue nature of the Covenant forces in a single line in the first mission. A guess.

I expected that reuniting with Infinity would've cleared some things up, but no. It would've taken 1-2 minutes tops to explain just a little bit of backstory, but instead we get some cryptic "things have changed" and it's left at that.

There's no reason why the game should leave such gaping holes in the basic story that seem to contradict the way the Halo universe works, and then explain the roundabout solution in the novels. At worst, it's creating plotholes and implausibilities. At best, it's terrible storytelling.

This isn't Bungie's story to tell anymore, is the way I see it. So I don't see a severe obligation to step-by-step the player through the sequences that happened since Halo 3. Yes, it is a Halo title, and yes, that'd be really nice and convenient. I don't see Halo 4's story as "contradictory," because it does follow what has been established in the Halo universe; what's been published about the Halo universe. Inconsistent? Perhaps, most likely, and why not? This isn't Halo redone. It's a new Halo series. I hope you'll find yourself more open to it in time.

TL ; DR : The Covenant armor was different, so that was enough of a tell for me.
#52SahdukPosted 12/4/2012 8:09:26 AM
Nintendo_to posted...
TL ; DR : The Covenant armor was different, so that was enough of a tell for me.


What.
---
"Such hate flowing through me. Doesn't matter, all just chemical reactions.
Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Irrelevant.
"
#53Nintendo_toPosted 12/4/2012 8:12:07 AM
Sahduk posted...
What.

They're wearing summertime armor.
#54SahdukPosted 12/4/2012 8:13:40 AM
oh well that makes more sense
---
"Such hate flowing through me. Doesn't matter, all just chemical reactions.
Irrelevant. Irrelevant. Irrelevant.
"
#55Nintendo_toPosted 12/4/2012 8:16:53 AM
Yah. I don't really like the look of it.
#56ArcGuardPosted 12/4/2012 8:35:20 AM
Nintendo_to posted...
zyxomma100 posted...
From: ArcGuard | #040
Are you telling em when you saw the covenant in Halo 1, you knew who they are? Are you saying when you saw master Chief in Halo 1, you knew why he was such a big threat and why he was so super? No. You know now. Why? Because you kept playing the games and learned.

That's not even close to the same thing. You're comparing unknown information (in H1) to information that seems to contradict what we know about the universe (in H4). You're comparing the fact that no one knew what the Halos did (in H1), to the fact that everyone knows what happened between H3 and H4 but no one seems to want to let the goddamn player know this vital information (in H4).

Sure, it makes sense that we're fighting a rogue group of Covenant. But how do we know that's what this is? As far as we know, the humans and Sangheili are in a friendly but tenuous relationship at the start of H4. So when all of a sudden we're fighting Covenant with barely a second thought, alarm bells start ringing when you realize it doesn't make sense.

The only mention to it is Cortana making a barely educated guess as to the rogue nature of the Covenant forces in a single line in the first mission. A guess.

I expected that reuniting with Infinity would've cleared some things up, but no. It would've taken 1-2 minutes tops to explain just a little bit of backstory, but instead we get some cryptic "things have changed" and it's left at that.

There's no reason why the game should leave such gaping holes in the basic story that seem to contradict the way the Halo universe works, and then explain the roundabout solution in the novels. At worst, it's creating plotholes and implausibilities. At best, it's terrible storytelling.

This isn't Bungie's story to tell anymore, is the way I see it. So I don't see a severe obligation to step-by-step the player through the sequences that happened since Halo 3. Yes, it is a Halo title, and yes, that'd be really nice and convenient. I don't see Halo 4's story as "contradictory," because it does follow what has been established in the Halo universe; what's been published about the Halo universe. Inconsistent? Perhaps, most likely, and why not? This isn't Halo redone. It's a new Halo series. I hope you'll find yourself more open to it in time.

TL ; DR : The Covenant armor was different, so that was enough of a tell for me.

Honestly, my best explanation? This is master chief's story. He was asleep for 4 years. He doesn't know what happened in those four years. Why should we, if we'e role-playing as him?



But, why do they have to explain every scrap of the story in the first game? There are three. That is the point of having three...
#57_Gladiator_Posted 12/4/2012 8:39:28 AM
Read the effin' novels if you want the story, because some of the games (Reach in particular) sh*t on a great story with horrible plot elements added for pure gimmicky purposes. Basically a big middle finger to the authors.

If you rely on the games themselves to explain everything, youre just gonna get the basic bare bones version of the story.
---
Don't be hatin' on Carmine, hundreds of them die every day to keep your ass safe from pale steroid abusers. - Sic_GloryFades
#58Nintendo_toPosted 12/4/2012 8:51:57 AM
ArcGuard posted...
Nintendo_to posted...
zyxomma100 posted...
From: ArcGuard | #040
Are you telling em when you saw the covenant in Halo 1, you knew who they are? Are you saying when you saw master Chief in Halo 1, you knew why he was such a big threat and why he was so super? No. You know now. Why? Because you kept playing the games and learned.

That's not even close to the same thing. You're comparing unknown information (in H1) to information that seems to contradict what we know about the universe (in H4). You're comparing the fact that no one knew what the Halos did (in H1), to the fact that everyone knows what happened between H3 and H4 but no one seems to want to let the goddamn player know this vital information (in H4).

Sure, it makes sense that we're fighting a rogue group of Covenant. But how do we know that's what this is? As far as we know, the humans and Sangheili are in a friendly but tenuous relationship at the start of H4. So when all of a sudden we're fighting Covenant with barely a second thought, alarm bells start ringing when you realize it doesn't make sense.

The only mention to it is Cortana making a barely educated guess as to the rogue nature of the Covenant forces in a single line in the first mission. A guess.

I expected that reuniting with Infinity would've cleared some things up, but no. It would've taken 1-2 minutes tops to explain just a little bit of backstory, but instead we get some cryptic "things have changed" and it's left at that.

There's no reason why the game should leave such gaping holes in the basic story that seem to contradict the way the Halo universe works, and then explain the roundabout solution in the novels. At worst, it's creating plotholes and implausibilities. At best, it's terrible storytelling.

lalalalala

Honestly, my best explanation? This is master chief's story. He was asleep for 4 years. He doesn't know what happened in those four years. Why should we, if we'e role-playing as him?

But, why do they have to explain every scrap of the story in the first game? There are three. That is the point of having three...

Homage to the fans? If they're using all their material I imagine it'd be great to see recognition for that in the game.

Also, agreed. Master Chief wakes up in a situation. Not really the time to sit and think. If in Halo 5 they change to referring to the Covenant as the "Storm," I'll really like that.
#59Nintendo_toPosted 12/4/2012 8:55:48 AM
zyxomma100 posted...
From: ArcGuard | #040
Are you telling em when you saw the covenant in Halo 1, you knew who they are? Are you saying when you saw master Chief in Halo 1, you knew why he was such a big threat and why he was so super? No. You know now. Why? Because you kept playing the games and learned.

[...] The main point is that it's perfectly fine to not know all the information. That's part of what made H1 and 2 great... you were still figuring out how the universe worked, and figuring it out was 90% of the fun of the story. However, the fact that every single character in the game knows what's going on and none of them will give the player any information is just awful.

Chief's duty wasn't really to know things..? is all I can say to that. In retrospect, good point. But playing the game, not a concern.
#60ArcGuardPosted 12/4/2012 8:58:49 AM
Nintendo_to posted...
zyxomma100 posted...
From: ArcGuard | #040
Are you telling em when you saw the covenant in Halo 1, you knew who they are? Are you saying when you saw master Chief in Halo 1, you knew why he was such a big threat and why he was so super? No. You know now. Why? Because you kept playing the games and learned.

[...] The main point is that it's perfectly fine to not know all the information. That's part of what made H1 and 2 great... you were still figuring out how the universe worked, and figuring it out was 90% of the fun of the story. However, the fact that every single character in the game knows what's going on and none of them will give the player any information is just awful.

Chief's duty wasn't really to know things..? is all I can say to that. In retrospect, good point. But playing the game, not a concern.


The fact that there is *spoilers* a giant alien death machine trying to rip through your space ship/planet/universe kind of supersedes the need for the chief to understand the diplomatic relationships between the humans and the several sects of the now splintered covenant.

At least, in my opinion. Immediate threat > potential threat. The chief barely had time to go to the bathroom (I don't even know if he did), let alone have time to sit around and play office politics.