Food for thought: The MA5C ruined Halo. (analysis through retrospective clarity)

#21Asherlee10Posted 1/23/2013 11:11:40 AM
KageNoSenshi posted...
M6D = CE pistol
MA5B = CE AR
M7 = H2 SMG
BR55 = H2 BR
MA5C = H3 AR
MA37 = Reach AR


Because it had to be explained like this, I lost interest in reading your first 2 posts. I would have liked to participate, but the language is tough. But I suppose you can toss me in here:

__bale posted...
SOOOO much casual in this topic lmao

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#22KageNoSenshi(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 2:45:07 AM
#15 BigStuff311 Posted
Short Version: The gap between the spawn weapon and most effective weapon varies between each game. The sweet spot was Halo 2. Prefight routines (securing weapons, grenades, abilities) are decreased. The advantages gained during Pre-fight routines was what made Halo, Halo.

YES! Very much this. This is why people say each successive Halo doesn't feel like Halo anymore. Sure you're still running around in power armor, but ^this is where the feel of the gameplay came from.

1 SMG vs 2 SMG (or Some other SMG+ Combo) Is not as one sided as you make it out to be. Grenades evened out these encounters (especially post patch). ** I agree that the dual wielders have an advantage, but its not gamebreaking.**

It's not only a matter of 1 SMG vs 2 though. I can think of an example to illustrate this: Wizard/Warlock.

This map worked in CE because of pistol spawns. Everyone started on equal footing and you could fight for position but nothing was overly dominating. As an extension, this map worked in H2 w/ BR spawns, for the very same reason.

But do you remember this map on SMG spawns? The first team to get momentum and fight their way to the BR pretty much held it and dominated the map. It turned into a slaughter because it was very tough for the SMG and a couple grenades to compete w/ the BR, grenades, and positional advantage. Spawning w/ a pistol could have alleviated this slightly and somewhat leveled the field w/out overly empowering the players at spawn.

#18 CetraRagnarok Posted
[constructive input]

Now that I see where you're coming from w/ the weapons and vehicles, I see that you get what I mean as well. And I mostly agree, if they can add as much as they can w/out making things redundant, especially when bringing things from previous games, it should be pretty well received.

#19 XBLgamer002 Posted
I completely disagree with the idea that the H3 AR ruined halo. It perfectly balanced with the BR in CQC. 6 shots of an AR plus melee equaled a kill, but 6 shots of a BR and a melee did not kill, requiring the BR user to shoot 3 bursts to kill with a melee. The only dual-wielding combo worth using was the PR and SMG, but most others were not great. A slightly better pistol in H3 would have been better, but it was ok. Overall, H3 by far had the best weapon balance IMO. I think the disappearance of dual-wielding (it needed improvement) hurt future games as well

Again, I'm not saying that the H3 AR was a bad weapon, I'm saying it was a symbol of Halo's eventual ruin. It began the shift toward making the players more viable at spawn at the expense of fighting for upgrades around the map. A shift in the mindset behind Halo multiplayer.

And again, it also killed dual-wielding. The AR was far superior to the SMG. Two SMGs sacrificed the ability to use grenades unless you want to drop the left-hand weapon, in which case, you are again disadvantaged against AR users. By starting w/ the AR, why go out of your way to pick up weapons that are going to be a downgrade from what you're starting off with?

The main thing that made Halo so solid was its success in starting everyone off on equal footing, and then fighting for upgrades and then control of the map. AAs in Reach undermined this, and the loadouts in 4 even more so. Loadouts were an extension of AAs, which were an extension of equipment, which were introduced in H3 along w/ the return of the AR. And my theory is that they did that to "distance" H3 from CE. Focusing on improving dual-wielding would have averted the need for equipment. Especially when you have to drop your weapon to use it.
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#23KageNoSenshi(Topic Creator)Posted 1/26/2013 2:54:39 AM
#21 Asherlee10 Posted
Because it had to be explained like this, I lost interest in reading your first 2 posts. I would have liked to participate, but the language is tough.

TBH, I kinda imagined that the people who would be willing to engage in this conversation would follow this sort of stuff. The designations aren't overly complex and since they change in every game, it makes it easy to say which game is being talked about w/out having to reiterate. It's unfortunate that just that alone would discourage you from participating, but since I can't force you to participate I guess I'll have to accept that.

But it is noted, and know that I know I will be sure to communicate in a way that allows everyone to get involved.

#20 __bale Posted
SOOOO much casual in this topic lmao

If you would like to provide input from the "harcore" perspective on the progression of Halo as a series, how it compares to what it used to be, and why it has progressed the way it has, I'd be more than willing to listen. Additional input, especially from varying viewpoints, is a good thing.

#17 Moody_Droid Posted
this is definitely the worst topic i've seen on gamefaqs in 2013. bookmarked.

Glad it's so significant already. I mean we haven't even made it though January yet.

#16 DirtBasedSoap Posted
>high level discussion
>video games

Pick one

No thanks, I'll take both please.
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#24COG_KillaPosted 1/26/2013 3:11:26 AM
I think i know why this board's elites don't care about this. They don't care because there's so many options to tweak. They seem to be able to get everything they want from Halo, whether that be a different starting weapon, custom weapon spawns, etc. Dual wielding and AA's aren't very important to them. Don't like AA's? Take them out. Don't like DMR starts? Make it BR starts.

I believe that people like our illustrious elite players are a very vocal, and hive-minded group. 343 is listening to their feedback, or at least watching the gaming leagues who make gametypes for Halo. And that's all that matters to them.
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#25elitewarrior500Posted 1/26/2013 3:20:57 AM
__bale posted...
SOOOO much casual in this topic lmao

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#26link4342Posted 1/26/2013 10:20:15 AM
very well thought out bro, nice job
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#27krazyninjaman3Posted 1/27/2013 6:50:26 PM
Even though I only played Halo 1 and Halo 4 (played/ing the heck out of both of them) I've always wondered why on earth would these games have dual wielding (or more now commonly known as 'akimbo' - thanks a lot Call of Duty, for taking that word and changing the orignal meaning of it) when it will sacrifice your ability to throw grenades. Well this topic answered that for me.

What needs to be done now if they ever want to reintroduce dual weilding, is to make it so that once again the weapons that can be dual weilded are not only significant on their own (without being equal to other single handed weapons like the AR, but almost as powerful) but are just as doubly powerful when in akimbo. Also, we should once again be able to dual weild different types of weapons at the same time.

Now what's so revolutionary about this? Nothing really; but what is revolutionary is that I suggest we be able to start the match with akimbo weapons!

This now solves the problem of AR + Grenades vs SMG + running around trying to find another one.

Now, you can start off more powerful then the AR; but at the cost of not being able to throw grenades while in akimbo. The AR still has a decent weapon, with the flexibility of using grenades to compensate against the dual SMGs. I think this is a fair trade off.
#28krazyninjaman3Posted 1/30/2013 4:29:12 PM
So i guess i won this topic then? sweet! I won an actual non-troll topic for once!
#29ssj3bladePosted 1/30/2013 4:35:32 PM
From: Moody_Droid | Posted: 1/23/2013 4:12:46 AM | #017
this is definitely the worst topic i've seen on gamefaqs in 2013. bookmarked.


lol so mad
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#30ssj3bladePosted 1/30/2013 4:40:11 PM
From: krazyninjaman3 | Posted: 1/28/2013 1:50:26 AM | #027
Now, you can start off more powerful then the AR; but at the cost of not being able to throw grenades while in akimbo. The AR still has a decent weapon, with the flexibility of using grenades to compensate against the dual SMGs. I think this is a fair trade off.


The AR is already too powerful imho.
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