*Spoilers* Do you think Master Chief will undergo Spartan IV conversion?

#61forthnbackPosted 2/4/2013 8:05:46 PM
Use Halopedia, its updated much more frequently and does not contain the hyperbole and conjecture that Halo.Wikia is rife with.

Anyway, the information there is more or less accurate. The III's augments did not need a thyroid implant, achieving the same height and size without it. To reference, Carter and Emile are but an inch shorter than John. Palmer, as well, is an inch shorter than John.

The augmentation procedures worked far better than expected, but also killed many of its members. The III's were indeed from a less genetically vibrant pool, but still a very restricted and limited pool. They were not simply taking children off the streets. That being said, what precisely the "less restrictive" standards means has never been quantified. The difference, whatever it is, is apparently very minute.

The Beta's, at age 7-12, were capable of engaging Elites in hand to hand combat and breaking limbs, necks, and ribs despite the Beta's being in SPI and the Elites in shielded power-armor. To the degree where the Elites fell back, believing it suicide to engage the Beta Spartans in melee. The S3/S4 are capable of wearing MJOLNIR, which means their augmentation is on par with the S2.

There is a slight difference, due to most of the S3 having less perfect genes. Not all do ( http://halo.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/intel/c1.png ). But that difference is negligible, as the III's and IV's are capable and have been shown doing everything an S2 has done. The only difference, and an inarguable one, is that the S2's are individually better due to their vast amount of experience in the field. They've done it all a hundred times before.

Also, that quote with Mendez is referring to how disciplined the adult S2 were in the field, and how powerful and fast their adult MJOLNIR'd selves seemed compared to the experimental (ie: twitchy) Gamma class 14 year olds Mendez was also traveling with.
---
lizard_cops5771 - carbine should be called the space chugger
Urdnot_Runt - wat . . . . . . . . . [[GT: Burns Like Dawn]]
#62forthnbackPosted 2/4/2013 8:06:14 PM
xiTz_RyaNx posted...
There really needs to be some Master Chief fighting side by side the S4's in Sops.


Yes. Yes there does.
---
lizard_cops5771 - carbine should be called the space chugger
Urdnot_Runt - wat . . . . . . . . . [[GT: Burns Like Dawn]]
#63forthnbackPosted 2/4/2013 8:18:17 PM
forthnback posted...
Use Halopedia, its updated much more frequently and does not contain the hyperbole and conjecture that Halo.Wikia is rife with.

Anyway, the information there is more or less accurate. The III's augments did not need a thyroid implant, achieving the same height and size without it. To reference, Carter and Emile are but an inch shorter than John. Palmer, as well, is an inch shorter than John.

The augmentation procedures worked far better than expected, but also killed many of its members. The III's were indeed from a less genetically vibrant pool, but still a very restricted and limited pool. They were not simply taking children off the streets. That being said, what precisely the "less restrictive" standards means has never been quantified. The difference, whatever it is, is apparently very minute.

The Beta's, at age 7-12, were capable of engaging Elites in hand to hand combat and breaking limbs, necks, and ribs despite the Beta's being in SPI and the Elites in shielded power-armor. To the degree where the Elites fell back, believing it suicide to engage the Beta Spartans in melee. The S3/S4 are capable of wearing MJOLNIR, which means their augmentation is on par with the S2.

There is a slight difference, due to most of the S3 having less perfect genes. Not all do ( http://halo.bungie.net/images/Games/Reach/intel/c1.png ). But that difference is negligible, as the III's and IV's are capable and have been shown doing everything an S2 has done. The only difference, and an inarguable one, is that the S2's are individually better due to their vast amount of experience in the field. They've done it all a hundred times before.

Also, that quote with Mendez is referring to how disciplined the adult S2 were in the field, and how powerful and fast their adult MJOLNIR'd selves seemed compared to the experimental (ie: twitchy) Gamma class 14 year olds Mendez was also traveling with.


To clarify, because I don't feel I was being clear, there is a difference in results due to the genes. But either that difference is incredibly slight, or the difference in genes does not hinder the synergistic boosting of the augmentation results, due to the III's and IV's being shown to do everything the II's have done and are capable of.
---
lizard_cops5771 - carbine should be called the space chugger
Urdnot_Runt - wat . . . . . . . . . [[GT: Burns Like Dawn]]
#64GeneralKenobi85Posted 2/4/2013 8:38:32 PM
Well I assume he'll get the new MJOLNIR armor. But that's it.
---
Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi
<sneaky beeping>
#65AoENIACPosted 2/4/2013 9:04:03 PM(edited)
The gene profile of a Spartan II and some of the Spartan IIIs was very important to the efficacy of their augmentations over time. Possessing the compatible gene profiles allowed those Spartans to have superior strength and reflexes to the rest of the Spartan IIIs. Presumably, unless there has been a marked improvement in the augmentation process, the Spartan IVs are largely unable to take advantage of these extra benefits, which could sometimes be as great as almost five times greater than normal in the case of the combat reflexes augmentation. This is one reason why Master Chief is so awesome, he's one of the oldest surviving Spartans and as such his augmentations have had the full benefit of time to reach greater levels of efficacy.

However, most of what is known about Spartan IVs is speculation as I don't think there is nearly as much literature about their augmentation process as there is about the SIIs and SIIIs. The main reason I continue to insist that Spartan IVs are slightly inferior in augmentation to SIIs and SIIIs is because we know that the SIVs are from an extremely wide gene pool, being volunteer marines, and as such it is unlikely that many of them have genes that would have been able to get the full effect of the augmentations like those with genes in the SII profile and it is unlikely that the SIVs are being given drugs like the SIIIs. This, of course, also assumes that the augmentations used on the SII and SIII are still in use for the SIVs. I've heard "gene therapy" being thrown around but what I'd like to know is if the augmentations themselves are gene therapies of if the gene therapy is attempting to allow the SIVs to activate the genetic benefits of a SII profile...

And I feel that I should clarify that while I do believe that the augmentation process on the SII and SIII subjects was more effective than on the SIV subjects, that I'm not suggesting that the difference is going to matter.

Let's say that there are certain parameters that must be met in order to be a functional Spartan. Let's make up a number (just completely made up), say, being able to punch with 300-500 pounds of force per square inch, as an example of such parameters. Once you get into that range, let's pretend that you are strong enough to do everything a Spartan needs to do, wear Mjolnir armor, grapple Elites, carry mounted turrets, jump high, run fast, flip tanks, etc. And let's also pretend that due to limitations on the human body, it is just plain impossible to make a Spartan any stronger than the upper limit of that bracket without serious health conditions or physical distortion that does not fit within standard armor and vehicles.

So let's say that all generations of Spartan from II onward fall into that bracket of 300-500 pound of force per square inch. Does it matter if, maybe, some of the Spartan IIs are punching at 450 while some of the Spartan IVs are punching at 440? No, it doesn't. They can still all do everything, and the UNSC is going to support the Spartan IV process of extensive gene therapy because it is safe and still delivers results with variation comparable to Spartan IIs.

EDIT: All I'm saying is that the Spartan IIs had their bodies very extensively modified, with chemical treatments for muscle density and blood circulation, ceramic lacing for their skeletons, an implant for hormone treatment to enhance growth, and chemical alteration of the nerves.
---
Is there something about the way I type that makes it sound angry? Maybe it's just something about the way you read.
#66Phoenixmon2Posted 2/4/2013 9:03:02 PM
forthnback posted...
To clarify, because I don't feel I was being clear, there is a difference in results due to the genes. But either that difference is incredibly slight, or the difference in genes does not hinder the synergistic boosting of the augmentation results, due to the III's and IV's being shown to do everything the II's have done and are capable of.


It says that Ghosts of Onyx gives a percentage comparison of the reflex increase the augmentations gave them. IIIs were boosted by 300%, but IIs got up to 1400% faster.
#67AoENIACPosted 2/4/2013 9:07:35 PM(edited)
Phoenixmon2 posted...
forthnback posted...
To clarify, because I don't feel I was being clear, there is a difference in results due to the genes. But either that difference is incredibly slight, or the difference in genes does not hinder the synergistic boosting of the augmentation results, due to the III's and IV's being shown to do everything the II's have done and are capable of.


It says that Ghosts of Onyx gives a percentage comparison of the reflex increase the augmentations gave them. IIIs were boosted by 300%, but IIs got up to 1400% faster.


While I agree that this is a good indicator of the canon difference between Spartan IIs and the others, that it doesn't matter much when the IIIs and IVs that don't have the right genes can still do everything they need to do and kick serious ass and that from a gameplay perspective there is zero functional difference.

What is the difference between 300% and 1400% when you're already dealing with the milisecond scale? Can you tell the difference between 20 milliseconds and 100 milliseconds? Neither can I.
---
Is there something about the way I type that makes it sound angry? Maybe it's just something about the way you read.
#68forthnbackPosted 2/4/2013 10:01:16 PM
AoENIAC, very good post. I don't have access to my books right this second, but the 300% increase to reflexes ballooning into those higher values was unexpected. The UNSC scientists and Halsey did not properly calculate/understand the level of improvement they would be rendering. This was the first time they'd done a true Spartan program, so its to be expected. 300% was what they projected, but the end result was higher than their faulty math anticipated.

The III's would have a similar boost in end results, it would just be somewhat lesser synergy than the II's achieved, as most III's have 'almost perfect' as opposed to 'perfect' genes.

Also, I do agree that the difference is mere semantics. Every generation is ridiculously superhuman, and the difference between them physically has very little practical impact.
---
lizard_cops5771 - carbine should be called the space chugger
Urdnot_Runt - wat . . . . . . . . . [[GT: Burns Like Dawn]]
#69xiTz_RyaNx(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 11:53:39 PM
forthnback posted...
AoENIAC, very good post. I don't have access to my books right this second, but the 300% increase to reflexes ballooning into those higher values was unexpected. The UNSC scientists and Halsey did not properly calculate/understand the level of improvement they would be rendering. This was the first time they'd done a true Spartan program, so its to be expected. 300% was what they projected, but the end result was higher than their faulty math anticipated.

The III's would have a similar boost in end results, it would just be somewhat lesser synergy than the II's achieved, as most III's have 'almost perfect' as opposed to 'perfect' genes.

Also, I do agree that the difference is mere semantics. Every generation is ridiculously superhuman, and the difference between them physically has very little practical impact.


So if it came down to a simple speed and strength test, could a spartan II, III and IV all run close to if not a few miles apart, the same speed and lift the same amount of free weight?
---
Saying I'm one of the best is just rude. All the people who don't agree look stupid then, and I don't want to make everyone feel stupid. (GT)- GotMyProSocksOn
#70forthnbackPosted 2/5/2013 12:25:04 AM
There are no hard ratio's or percentages, but they would all operate more or less on the same level. Some facts for strength; A Spartan is capable of benching three times their body weight, a weight that is higher than a normal person due to their large size and dense muscle/skeleton. John weighs 286 pounds, which means he can bench 858. MJOLNIR doubles their effective strength.

So, an S-II can lift around 1700 pounds in MJOLNIR, give or take. If an S-III could only do around 1600 or so, whats the real difference at that point? If one group can run at 40 miles an hour on foot, and another at around 35....whats the real difference? A small one, to be certain, but effectively negligable.
---
lizard_cops5771 - carbine should be called the space chugger
Urdnot_Runt - wat . . . . . . . . . [[GT: Burns Like Dawn]]