I am the resident expert on the TrueSkill system.

#81That1GuyyPosted 3/31/2013 6:43:51 PM
How could the average be above 25? For someone to rank up, someone else has to rank down.
---
Perfection. Where everyone fails.
If you expect nothing you can be happy for everything.
#82lderivedx(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2013 6:52:09 PM
From: That1Guyy | #081
For someone to rank up, someone else has to rank down


I've said this before: in almost all cases it's not a zero sum game. The winning team can increase more than the losing team drops.
---
You hate even numbers? Are you one of those people that only eats certain colors of M&Ms? -skiergamer23
GT: i derive dx
#83ssj3bladePosted 3/31/2013 8:53:42 PM
derive you need to explain terms you use. You had to explain the same over and over because I'm sure not everyone knows what a "zero sum game" is.
---
http://www.imgur.com/gRn0NSE.png
~ ssj3blade ~
#84lderivedx(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2013 10:07:33 PM
The sum of all the ranks changes even when new players are not added. One team can gain more than the other loses.

My bad. :/
#85That1GuyyPosted 3/31/2013 10:09:17 PM
lderivedx posted...
I've said this before: in almost all cases it's not a zero sum game. The winning team can increase more than the losing team drops.


The losing team can also rank down more than the winning team ranks up. You have yet to explain why the winning team ranking up more could happen more often than the losing team ranking down more.

ssj3blade posted...
derive you need to explain terms you use. You had to explain the same over and over because I'm sure not everyone knows what a "zero sum game" is.


The problem isn't his terminology. It's that he isn't justifying his position fully.
---
Perfection. Where everyone fails.
If you expect nothing you can be happy for everything.
#86lderivedx(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2013 10:16:12 PM
Actually, I don't have to justify that. You are the one who claimed it was impossible and that it must be 25. TrueSkill not being a zero sum game destroys your justification for your claims.
#87That1GuyyPosted 3/31/2013 10:25:03 PM
I fail to see how if you exclude new players from entering the system, and then have every player within the system play an infinite number of games, the system isn't effectively zero sum.
---
Perfection. Where everyone fails.
If you expect nothing you can be happy for everything.
#88lderivedx(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2013 10:38:32 PM
Why is it necessary to play an infinite number of games? If the average must be 25, then it holds true for any finite number of games as well.
#89That1GuyyPosted 3/31/2013 10:49:09 PM
The average must be 25 only in that theoretical case. In reality, it's going to be lower because new players start at rank 1, and many players will stop playing before reaching their peak skill. While account buying and boosting will artificially raise the average, the number of people who do this pales in comparison to the people who quit early.
---
Perfection. Where everyone fails.
If you expect nothing you can be happy for everything.
#90lderivedx(Topic Creator)Posted 3/31/2013 11:00:47 PM
No. I can construct a case where, even after an infinite number of games, the system is not zero-sum. I am on my itouch right now so I will post it tomorrow.

In the nicest way possible: you may want to consider if you think that your arguments are strong enough to justify spending the time trying to prove me wrong.