Did anyone take non linear dungeons to mean every item will be like the spinner?

#21SolidKnightPosted 1/24/2013 10:02:58 AM
Geminia999 posted...
I mean, the spinner was remembered for being very fun, but still absolutely useless outside of its dungeon besides a few heart pieces and one part right before the final boss. I just see having such an open order means everything would have to be open from start, have the same difficulty from start, only puzzles involving that dungeon item, etc.

Unless they really go out of their way to make the dungeons vary depending on which items you have (would be awesome for speed runs though) and a sliding difficulty for after each dungeon, I just don't see that working. Who knows, maybe it can be done, but maybe it can't/


A Link to the Past permitted out-of-order dungeons and didn't have items like the spinner.
#22MooglePeruPosted 1/24/2013 10:55:25 AM
wiiking96 posted...
MooglePeru posted...
The dungeon items are the ones causing the linearity of the dungeons in the first place.
The non-linear games (LoZ, ALttP, OoT) had dungeon items that definitely weren't needed for solving further dungeons. I think this approach would be the most wise of them all.

But OoT also had the weakest items and dungeon design as a result. TP is much more linear, but the items are very creative and the dungeon design is superb.


>OoT had weak dungeon design
>Forest Temple


Try harder.
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#23TylerGamer84Posted 1/24/2013 12:55:12 PM
Some of my thoughts and some other folks that posted combined. Not trying to steal anyone's ideas.

The first part of the game or maybe the first dungeon could be about getting your sword, shield, and one or two other items like the bow and maybe bombs from the get go and then the rest or most of the game world is open for you to do as you see fit.

Also toss in the idea of having the items only be absolutely required for the dungeon you find them in, but only for a few of them, and have some found out in the world.

And have some truly large time-consuming dungeons. Something that you might have to take a break and finish in another play session, but not to big or it could get tedious and annoying.
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#24wiiking96Posted 1/24/2013 1:04:45 PM
MooglePeru posted...
wiiking96 posted...
MooglePeru posted...
The dungeon items are the ones causing the linearity of the dungeons in the first place.
The non-linear games (LoZ, ALttP, OoT) had dungeon items that definitely weren't needed for solving further dungeons. I think this approach would be the most wise of them all.

But OoT also had the weakest items and dungeon design as a result. TP is much more linear, but the items are very creative and the dungeon design is superb.


>OoT had weak dungeon design
>Forest Temple


Try harder.

The Forest Temple is one of the better ones, but it pales in comparison to the dungeons in MM and TP. The puzzles are pretty good, and it introduces some brand new ones(which are then milked by all the following dungeons).
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#25MooglePeruPosted 1/24/2013 1:09:43 PM
While I agree that MM and TP had great, excellent dungeons, your argument is invalid.

You staed that the weak dungeons in OoT were a result of their bad items. See MM: 4 freaking arrows (and the last one of them was just a switch opener) and yet excellent dungeons.

I think that this Zelda should follow MM's philosophy of design.
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#26heartlessprinnyPosted 1/24/2013 1:23:38 PM
They could design dungeon rooms with multiple solutions depending on what items you currently have. For example they could make it where you had to get up to a ledge and flip a switch, and have some sort of obstacle to getting there, but if you have the hookshot you can just grapple up there straight away. It would make the dungeons more or less difficult depending on what items you got before the dungeon.
#27morpheus1138Posted 1/24/2013 7:55:57 PM
heartlessprinny posted...
A Link to the Past handled this aspect the best, I think. You could do the the dark world dungeons in a lot of different orders, and most of the items were usable for combat, it also had plenty of completely optional items.


Was going to say this ^
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#28Someguy_13Posted 1/24/2013 8:52:30 PM
I'm not a huge fan of the whole non-linear dungeons thing. It means that you cant use dungeon items from one dungeon in a puzzle for another.

Unless there were several versions of each dungeon and it changed depending on which items you had.
The Cave does something similar where the Cave changes depending on which characters you pick.

That would be awesome actually.
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#29ZBug_Posted 1/25/2013 3:36:21 AM
As others have said ALttP and MM. Those are the two games this should try to imitate. Also my two favorite Zelda games.
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