The Legend of Zelda Wii U
This game should be split into two acts; here's why.
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Never played 10, so I wouldn't know what you're talking about. --- Previously erksage. Mother 3 to America!....right? | |
...that no longer looks to ALttP or OoT when thinking of Zelda's best years... This is more or less EXACTLY what ALttP and OoT actually do. >_> ALttP locks you into a linear path until you get the Magic Hammer. There are minor side-quests you can do along the way up to that point. The second you get that hammer, you can do any of the first four Dark World dungeons. But the last few dungeons require you to have items from those dungeons to get in (5 requires the Fire Rod/Titan's Mitt, 6 requires the Titan's Mitt/Hookshot, 7 requires the Cane of Somaria). This allowed for both choice in where you go, AND more complex design in the late dungeons, and hearkened back to the first two LoZ games, where there were dungeons you could do right away and dungeons you needed special items to enter. OoT did the same thing. Three linear dungeons, three dungeons you can do in any order, and two dungeons you can pick between. Started out closed, then opened up with the Hookshot and sprouted beans. Side-quests got more layers the longer the game went on, and more areas opened up as you got more equipment. You're suggesting that they follow this format while simultaneously saying that the series needs to 'get away from ALttP/OoT'. That doesn't make any sense. There's a reason why people laud the overall design of these two games, and this is why. They provide freedom in a defined structure. There are two implications behind overall design in a Zelda game. The first and far more important one is item placement based upon the design. Compare the puzzles of ALttP and OoT to those of TP. TP has far more sophisticated, equipment-based puzzles, in great part due to its linear format, whereas OoT and ALttP allow for your inventory to have gaping holes in it so that you can do dungeons out of order. One suggested solution to this is to change the format so that you don't actually get the "typical" dungeon items in the dungeons at all. I think this idea has a lot of merit as we've seen it work to great effect in the series already, when OoT makes you get the Hookshot before you do ANY of the adult dungeons. Then dungeons could be filled with item/equipment upgrades instead, which is also something we've seen in the series already. The other, less noteworthy implication is the effect non-linearity has on story structure. ALttP and OoT dealt with this by making their dungeons have enclosed story tidbits (OoT way more so than ALttP with its threadbare story). ALttP gave you more info from the maidens at the end of each dungeon. None of these tidbits were reliant upon the others. OoT focused on the individual sages you rescued at the end of the dungeons and sometimes at the beginning or even before the dungeon started, but these segments were not reliant upon each other (story that happens in the Fire Temple doesn't depend on whether or not you did the story bits in the Water Temple because they're completely separate). I think these two games have it right. This is the way to incorporate story in non-linear game segments. However, it could be expanded upon and incorporated into dungeon level design; in TWW, you went through two of the dungeons with another character. You could do something like that in this format as well. --- "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error." - Linus Pauling | |
It's easier to make a linear game, which is probably why the series has gotten more and more linear over time. In a less linear Zelda, the implications of item placement and world/dungeon design need to be considered more carefully, and story needs to be crafted so that it makes sense no matter where you're going. But the end result is a game with more rewarding exploration and more replay value. --- "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error." - Linus Pauling | |
From: Gaawa_chan | #013 But the end result is a game with more rewarding exploration and more replay value. Wait, did you just imply that the latest Zelda games have those? Because they sure as hell don't. --- King of the Zelda Wii U Board Mog can go **** himself - Members of the ZWU Board | |
MooglePeru posted... From: Gaawa_chan | #013But the end result is a game with more rewarding exploration and more replay value. No, I was saying the opposite, but now that I re-read my post I realize that I could have phrased that better. *Goes to edit* Is that better? --- "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error." - Linus Pauling | |
From: Gaawa_chan | #015 Is that better? Sure, why not. It's ok now. Now leave my kingdom. --- King of the Zelda Wii U Board Mog can go **** himself - Members of the ZWU Board | |
Gaawa_chan posted... ...that no longer looks to ALttP or OoT when thinking of Zelda's best years... Don't give me your skeptical eyes. Re-read the first post. I'm not being bitter, but what I described was linearity in puzzle and dungeon design, not dungeon order. What I'm saying is that the First Act would give you EVERYTHING you would need, albeit a hidden item or two. The Second Act would expand on the world and the gameplay. I don't care to read a huge paragraph about non-linearity in dungeon order, because that's not what I was talking about. I'm talking about creative, multisolution puzzles and fights. Since the first act would've acquainted us with the mechanics of the game very solidly, the second act can push us to be constructive with them. Not talking about linearity in game FLOW, but rather, game PLAY. On your point about ALttP, I agree. I overlooked that while trying to be pretentious, and I will give that point to you on account of my own inaccuracy. With OoT, I disagree. Why? Read the topic I made about badass items. OoT's creativity with item implementation is not good. The dungeons are open in solution, yes, but when you get things like the Megaton Hammer, Lens of Truth, and Mirror Shield later on... they are so puzzle-specific that they become one shot items. Twilight Princess is a good example of one shotters. And I guess, lastly, I don't think ALttP should really be accredited with good sidequests. Just my opinion. I'm not denying that there ARE sidequests, but they were fairly shallow. The Magic Cape was fun to find, though. --- Previously erksage. Mother 3 to America!....right? | |
From: NavidsonRecord | #017 Just my opinion. I'm not denying that there ARE sidequests, but they were fairly shallow. The Magic Cape was fun to find, though. Yeah, the sidequests in ALttP are lacking, yet it's in the wonderful explorable optional items that the game shines. For example, you are in DEath Mountain, and you see that freaking mysterious tombstone over a gap, calling you in. You wonder what it is. The curiosity just itches it. Then you come back with your hard earned hammer and discover a totally sweet new magic attack. Yes, you barely used it, but damn the journey was fun. Exploration in games usually depends on the curiosity of the players to deliver. Kinda like the Ice Key in Banjo Kazooie. I swear that goddamn thing made me break Freezeezy Peaks in unholy levels. --- King of the Zelda Wii U Board Mog can go **** himself - Members of the ZWU Board | |
About the two acts idea, this game should do something like what Chrono Trigger did. Spend the first half establishing familiarity before completely subverting any expectations the players had with the second half of the game. --- http://i.minus.com/is83Deybz1eyw.gif I don't fight for good and I don't fight for evil, I just fight! | |
Choron Trigger had a second half? --- King of the Zelda Wii U Board Mog can go **** himself - Members of the ZWU Board |
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