making link a woman would betray the character

#191Our_gravePosted 6/12/2014 5:16:51 PM
MumboJ posted...
Our_grave posted...
MumboJ posted...
How would a genderswap invalidate those few qualities?


They are typical male qualities.


Ok now that actually is sexist.


How so?
#192MumboJPosted 6/12/2014 5:19:00 PM
Our_grave posted...
MumboJ posted...
Our_grave posted...
MumboJ posted...
How would a genderswap invalidate those few qualities?


They are typical male qualities.


Ok now that actually is sexist.


How so?


Gee, I wonder.

Could it be that you said courage and strength are male qualities, implying cowardice and weakness are female ones?
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#193SuperMario1998Posted 6/12/2014 5:25:44 PM
pokemega32 posted...
SuperMario1998 posted...
nor is there a controversy over turning black characters white


What alternate universe do you live in?

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Film:Casting_controversy

Also, people should just stop having this discussion. It's clear TC and the people agreeing with him have some serious issues:

- Link and Zelda have to have romantic subtext. Ergo, TP Link wasn't really Link.
- Link is a single character that can never have different personality traits.
- Even if Link is a set of a bunch of different similar characters. Making one that is female is exactly the same thing as changing the gender of a single defined individual.
- Samus has never had any characterization before Other M.
- Making a character female automatically makes them weak, as proven by Samus in Other M "reacting accordingly" to having a love interest (also father figure = love interest)
- Any Zelda game with a female protagonist would automatically suck because two of the CD-i Zelda games had a female protagonist and they sucked.


Let me make this more clear as I may have been confusing on this; hardly ever is there a point where people beg for a black character to be white, but it certainly goes the other way.

Let me make something else clear that I think a lot of people supporting this would agree with: I am not being sexist by any stretch. I would fight this arguement the other way if people wanted Samus to be male, Link, Mario etc. to be black, or Emmett Graves (only person I could think of off the top of my head) to be white. it isn't right to change things just to be 'culturally or socially diverse.' Cause seriously, I think most adults can deal with playing with a chracter that isn't the exact same sex and race as them, cause if not, then they are being sexist/racist.

So in response to the person who said men on here are getting upset that Nintendo would ruin their boy's club, there's your answer. it has nothing to do with the wanting of a men's world (in most cases) but a need for people to get over this incessant equality whining.

Also, the one kind of game where I would stand for this is Animal Crossing/Miis etc. only because that character should be you, and the only way to achieve that is if it also looks like you. Link, Mario, Samus, etc. are all defined characters that should not have their personalities and characters tarnished by being forced into another gender/race.
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#194Our_gravePosted 6/12/2014 5:30:17 PM
MumboJ posted...
Gee, I wonder.

Could it be that you said courage and strength are male qualities, implying cowardice and weakness are female ones?


All I said was they are typical male qualities. We tend to associate them with the half of humanity who typically does the dying in wars, etc.
#195pokemega32Posted 6/12/2014 5:32:26 PM(edited)
SuperMario1998 posted...
So in response to the person who said men on here are getting upset that Nintendo would ruin their boy's club, there's your answer. it has nothing to do with the wanting of a men's world (in most cases) but a need for people to get over this incessant equality whining.


What topic are you even reading?

No one here has "whined" about equality.

TC did not create this topic to say Link doesn't need to be female.

TC created this topic to say Link can't be female, because females aren't capable of being strong, hotblooded and courageous.

He literally said that.

Link, Mario, Samus, etc. are all defined characters that should not have their personalities and characters tarnished by being forced into another gender/race.


Link isn't a single character. Why is that so difficult to grasp?

Introducing a female Link isn't "changing Link into a female." It's making a new Link that's female.

Just like they created a right-handed Link. They didn't "force" Link into being right-handed.
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#196dearestnightPosted 6/12/2014 5:33:39 PM
Any character that has multiple iterations through multiple timelines/dimensions etc really invalidates any arguments you can have about what they "should be." All that matters is that they possess those one or two special properties that give them their purpose, assuming you aren't also going for a morality swap. That said, the better question is always "What does it do to reinvigorate the character?"

I have zero issues with a female Link but personally I believe a daughter of him and Zelda would make for a far more interesting new take. A whole new identity to build on and a new role in the times to be discovered by players.
#197gfrequencyPosted 6/12/2014 5:33:56 PM
Maybe this has been answered, but if Link is a continually reincarnated soul -- unlike the other characters listed, who are each individual people and obviously wouldn't make much sense to swap their race or gender -- then why on Earth couldn't that soul be reincarnated as female? Don't you dare argue soul biology with me and say it would betray his soul's man-parts or something, because that's not a thing. That art with the gender-swapped Link/Zelda and the clockwork tower was pretty awesome if you ask me.
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#198Ampharos64Posted 6/12/2014 5:45:42 PM(edited)
SuperMario1998 posted...
So in response to the person who said men on here are getting upset that Nintendo would ruin their boy's club, there's your answer. it has nothing to do with the wanting of a men's world (in most cases) but a need for people to get over this incessant equality whining.

Yes, because me being sick of being treated badly just because I happen to be female, and even more sick of seeing other women treated badly, me wanting to be included and being sick of exclusionary attitudes from people who are part of the same geek community as I am, is 'whining'.

It's not that they're simply saying that Link is an established character so they'd find the change hard to adjust to. I'd be fine with that and feel somewhat similarly, I'm quite happy with Link staying male. It's their attitudes.

Changing a character like Mario would be different, because there's nothing in the series that suggests that makes sense, whereas Zelda already has the idea of reincarnation established. And changing a female character to male or a black character to white isn't the same, because that would be taking away representation, not giving more.

Our_grave posted...
All I said was they are typical male qualities. We tend to associate them with the half of humanity who typically does the dying in wars, etc.

Because surely women can't possibly show courage in wartime!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Cavell

And all those women who had their country invaded in wars, who were often enough attacked and assaulted by those oh-so brave male soldiers, they were just cowards, right?

It is sexist to associate those traits with males.
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#199AbugumgumPosted 6/12/2014 5:51:19 PM(edited)
SuperMario1998 posted...
Let me make this more clear as I may have been confusing on this; hardly ever is there a point where people beg for a black character to be white, but it certainly goes the other way..


Haha... oh the ignorance.
People don't beg for non white characters to be portrayed as white because the western media is dominated by white characters. Furthermore, colored characters are more often defined by their race and so changing them is more difficult.
But white washing happens all the time. Sorry to use policymic as a link. But....
http://www.policymic.com/articles/83309/what-if-people-reacted-to-these-10-roles-like-they-have-to-michael-b-jordan

And lets not forget Jesus and Santa Claus.

Personally I believe there is nothing wrong with changing a character's race unless race is a defining trait of the character. For example, Mario is Italian, and is known for his accent. Therefore, making Mario black or Latino would be a betrayal of that character. And furthermore, Mario is a single defined character, while Link is a character that is constantly reincarnated, and reincarnation is known to transcend gender. On the other hand, Doctor Who has always been white, but doesn't have to be white, as he is an alien and canon does not state that all timelords are white.
Same to me goes for gender. I see no problem with a female Link, but a female Ganondorf conflicts with canon.
#200zonobiaPosted 6/12/2014 5:50:05 PM
pokemega32 posted...
Link isn't a single character. Why is that so difficult to grasp?


I can't believe how many times this argument is going to come up... The whole concept of multiple Links is all fine for the die-hards of official canon, but it's something that the vast majority of casual fans (which make up the majority of paying customers), don't pay attention to, and consider Link a singular character the same way Mario or Samus is. Creating a drastic change, such as changing Link from male to female, is not the sort of thing that would be a welcome change to the vast majority of paying customers. Link being male is an established convention.....PERIOD.