Making a decent helper isn't that hard Nintendo

#21chumpykalamoonaPosted 10/4/2012 8:13:37 PM
I think Navi, Tatl, The King of Red Lions, and Midna were all great helpers from a gameplay standpoint.
Because none of them were disruptive. There are parts when all of them do stop gameplay for a brief moment to tell you something, but it's very short, and usually what they're saying is important.
Story wise, all helpers are good. I don't care if they're nice, mean, stuck up, angry, happy, whatever. Characters have personalities, and they'll always be different.
The problem with Fi isn't her personality, or anything story related. It's her tendency to show up and reiterate what you've just been told.

"You got the Beetle! Use it to fly around and cut things."
"Master, it appears you got the Beetle. There is a 80% chance it can fly around and cut things. Further more, there is a 90% chance that you have to use it in this dungeon."

"You got the Bow! Use it to shoot far off things."
"Master, you got a Bow. There is a 75% chance that you can use it to shoot things that are far off. There is also a 85% chance that you will need to shoot far off things with it to progress."
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#22iKhanic(Topic Creator)Posted 10/4/2012 8:38:16 PM
chumpykalamoona posted...
I think Navi, Tatl, The King of Red Lions, and Midna were all great helpers from a gameplay standpoint.
Because none of them were disruptive. There are parts when all of them do stop gameplay for a brief moment to tell you something, but it's very short, and usually what they're saying is important.
Story wise, all helpers are good. I don't care if they're nice, mean, stuck up, angry, happy, whatever. Characters have personalities, and they'll always be different.
The problem with Fi isn't her personality, or anything story related. It's her tendency to show up and reiterate what you've just been told.

"You got the Beetle! Use it to fly around and cut things."
"Master, it appears you got the Beetle. There is a 80% chance it can fly around and cut things. Further more, there is a 90% chance that you have to use it in this dungeon."

"You got the Bow! Use it to shoot far off things."
"Master, you got a Bow. There is a 75% chance that you can use it to shoot things that are far off. There is also a 85% chance that you will need to shoot far off things with it to progress."


I agree, that was probably the worst part, which made her worse than Navi and KoRL. But personality really would have been nice all of the helpers, even Midna, can be a little bit annoying, but Midna's use of emotion in what she tells you (similar to Tetra when she helped you through the pirate's charm) makes the experience more bearable. The best example I can think of is in the Snowpeak Ruins, when you finally find the Bedroom Key, Midna basically says "FINALLY, we got the right one, now we can get going" which is probably what the player is feeling after Snowpeak ruins, aside from Best. Dungeon. Ever. This gives the player something to relate to. If Navi were in that situation, she'd say something along the lines of "lets go find yeta now and get the mirror shard". If Fi were there, she'd say "Master, there is a 95% chance that the device you acquired is the key to a bedroom. I calculate that there is a 99% chance that the bedroom that this key opens contains the mirror shard". Now which of those do you think is less annoying.
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#23chumpykalamoonaPosted 10/4/2012 8:46:59 PM
iKhanic posted...
I agree, that was probably the worst part, which made her worse than Navi and KoRL. But personality really would have been nice all of the helpers, even Midna, can be a little bit annoying, but Midna's use of emotion in what she tells you (similar to Tetra when she helped you through the pirate's charm) makes the experience more bearable. The best example I can think of is in the Snowpeak Ruins, when you finally find the Bedroom Key, Midna basically says "FINALLY, we got the right one, now we can get going" which is probably what the player is feeling after Snowpeak ruins, aside from Best. Dungeon. Ever. This gives the player something to relate to. If Navi were in that situation, she'd say something along the lines of "lets go find yeta now and get the mirror shard". If Fi were there, she'd say "Master, there is a 95% chance that the device you acquired is the key to a bedroom. I calculate that there is a 99% chance that the bedroom that this key opens contains the mirror shard". Now which of those do you think is less annoying.


I get what you're saying. I don't mean that personality and story are meaningless. It's just that I, personally, put less of an emphasis on them than their impact on gameplay.
I want a game (especially a Zelda game) to have exceptional gameplay, and be fun and enjoyable to play above all else. And the story can come second.
But that's just me.

But I do agree that some helpers are better (from a purely story standpoint) because of their personalities. The Midna example you provided is a good example of why I do like Midna.

Another thing from a personality/story perspective that I liked was Tatl's enemy descriptions.
Navi in OoT would simply state what it was and sometimes how to defeat it.
Tatl would say things like "It's a Skultula. Don't tell me you don't know how to fight one!" or "What, you mean you don't know what a Keese is!?" or something like that.
It wasn't exactly helpful, but it showed that she was different than Navi.
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Are you okay!? BUSTAH WULF!
#24ZBug_Posted 10/5/2012 9:21:08 PM(edited)
Navi was great because she really didn't talk that much. She said "hey" and "listen" but that was it. She only talked if prompted or a few times when you show up to a new area.
BOTH Midna AND Fi talked way too freaking much, and the worst part was that you had to listen to them.
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#25Sol_ClydePosted 10/6/2012 7:01:37 AM(edited)
I want helpers that are relevant to the story. Even with Navi flying and acting as my indicator of suspicious things I'd often forget she exists.

Tatl's bicycle sound annoyed me. Other than that I thought she talked TOO MUCH. Not because of the story events, that was fine because she would basically speak for Link. But during the side quests I often wished she would just SHUT UP.

Midna remains my favorite assistant even if she took too much of the spotlight during the first half of TP.
The only thing I didn't like about Fi were her forced hints. Like people say, she treats the player like he's a 6 years old and doesn't even allows us to think.
Other than that I liked how relevant she was and how she helped Link with more than just following around and talking.

I sometimes forget about KotRL because... well, he's not there unless we ride him. The stone is used very rarely and the only times we REALLY need to use it are forced as well.
Definately not my favorite helper either.

Lineback was super annoying for most of the time. Only in the ending I sympathized with him, but his participation is very limited outside of cut-scenes. Also, his game sucks anyway.
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