So, even Ridley being a stage hazard won't deconfirm him now.

#21MateoRingheadPosted 9/26/2013 12:22:52 PM
marchefelix posted...
Tron Bonne had a Servbot as part of her moveset and yet Servbot was his own character too.


...Who had a whatnow? Are you talking about some other game? Doomsday was in the background of a level in Injustice, and the level was unmodified during the storyline when you FOUGHT Doomsday in said level (so you fought Doomsday... In front of Doomsday), but that doesn't really mean that OTHER games will be so inconsistent. Especially not from a different developer, on a different system.
#22PT_PiranhaPosted 9/26/2013 12:23:08 PM
Jagus posted...
Since we can have Toon Link on a stage with Toon Link in it.


It would appear that way. So... good news for Ridley fans then?
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#23MateoRingheadPosted 9/26/2013 12:25:40 PM
OH! I got another rebuttal against Ridley. What if they DID somehow manage to make Ridley both a stage hazard and a playable character, AND they kept them of equal size? Then during the match a second Ridley of the same color could pop out and confuse the hell out of the players. Doesn't seem all that conducive to coherent fights now, does it?
#24MateoRingheadPosted 9/26/2013 12:26:26 PM
PT_Piranha posted...
Jagus posted...
Since we can have Toon Link on a stage with Toon Link in it.


It would appear that way. So... good news for Ridley fans then?


Different Toon Link. Descendant, 100 years apart, yadda yadda see my other post.
#25generalguy64Posted 9/26/2013 12:35:29 PM
MateoRinghead posted...
marchefelix posted...
Tron Bonne had a Servbot as part of her moveset and yet Servbot was his own character too.


...Who had a whatnow? Are you talking about some other game? Doomsday was in the background of a level in Injustice, and the level was unmodified during the storyline when you FOUGHT Doomsday in said level (so you fought Doomsday... In front of Doomsday), but that doesn't really mean that OTHER games will be so inconsistent. Especially not from a different developer, on a different system.


They changed it so when Doomsday is fighting in the Fortress of Solitude, it's his other costume (other universe's Doomsday) watching. And when it's Doomsday fighting Doomsday, Doomsday in the background is in his containment suit costume.

And they may do what Injustice did with Martian Manhunter. He is usually seen watching the fight in the Watchtower, but isn't shown when he is fighting in the watchtower. The same may apply for TL in the ST stage.
#26Jagus(Topic Creator)Posted 9/26/2013 12:59:01 PM
MateoRinghead posted...
PT_Piranha posted...

Jagus posted...

Since we can have Toon Link on a stage with Toon Link in it.


Literally doesn't matter. Sakurai doesn't are about Zelda canon. That's why TP Zelda can turn into Sheik. Or why she has Link's spells. Or why Ganondorf never uses his sword.

Besides, if you want to get into technicalities, this Ridley is a clone. Not the same.

You think it'll be weird to see 2 differently sized Ridleys? Not any weirder than seeing one low-graphics Toon Link next to a hi-quality one.
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#27Dsurions_WrathPosted 9/26/2013 12:59:20 PM
MateoRinghead posted...
papermegaslime posted...
MateoRinghead posted...
The playable Toon Link is from Wind Waker. The one in the stage is from Spirit Tracks, which is canonically a different person.

Also, they are the same size in the stage. If Ridley is a stage hazard, he will be large, and so having a smaller Ridley running around wouldn't really make any sense.


To your first point, there are multiple Ridleys too.


As of Other M there is a "second" Ridley, but Other M really messed up the timeline. They just cloned him, so it's not really HIM, now is it? It's genetically him, but it doesn't have his memories. It's not "leader-of-the-Space-Pirates" Ridley. So it's just a mindless beast. Unless they really DID clone him with memories, in which case it can, for all intents and purposes, be considered the "same person", in the same way that comic book characters pull that crap to retcon a character 'dying' all the time.

In Smallville, Lex Luthor was killed and later a clone with memories was created, and all of his memories of Clark's powers were hand-waved away by a neurotoxin. Viola. A new Lex Luthor that we're supposed to just call THE Lex Luthor, because the original no longer exists, and this one has all the same memories. I know this is a small, limited example, but they pull similar stunts all the time in sci-fi. Isn't it true that in the Star Trek universe, beaming somebody is actually creating an identical duplicate and destroying the original? In that case, there are tons of every character.

My point is, when a character dies and a new one is created that is the exactly the same in every detail, it's always a crappy way of saying "hey, pretend he never died, this is THE ______ from now on". That is what happened here. Hell, it's pretty much what happens in EVERY Metroid game, since in most Metroid games his battle ends with him disintegrating. This just happens to be the only game in which they tried to explain his reincarnation in the plot (...poorly). This is probably Ridley 6 or something.

The case is different with Toon Link, because we are given a strict timeline, and told directly that this is a different person. A descendant of the previous Links, even. Going on the comic book analogy, it's like when Batman/Captain America/Spider-Man dies, and someone else takes up the mantle of the new one. Different person entirely. The Ridley in Other M may be physically different from the previous ones, but it still fills the roll of THE Ridley in the Metroid series, being identical in every way.


...And while I know my argument isn't completely sound, you said it yourself, my other argument about having 2 differently-sized Ridleys on the same screen at the same time totally holds up. That would be really weird.


where'd you hear that about the transporters in Star Trek? They just decompile the person, then put them back together. No duplicates involved at all.
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#28JacornonthecobPosted 9/26/2013 1:00:45 PM
I'm waiting for the Yellow devil reveal. Of course it would deconfirm him. The two are completely different.
#29JacornonthecobPosted 9/26/2013 1:03:19 PM
Dsurions_Wrath posted...
MateoRinghead posted...
papermegaslime posted...
MateoRinghead posted...
The playable Toon Link is from Wind Waker. The one in the stage is from Spirit Tracks, which is canonically a different person.

Also, they are the same size in the stage. If Ridley is a stage hazard, he will be large, and so having a smaller Ridley running around wouldn't really make any sense.


To your first point, there are multiple Ridleys too.


As of Other M there is a "second" Ridley, but Other M really messed up the timeline. They just cloned him, so it's not really HIM, now is it? It's genetically him, but it doesn't have his memories. It's not "leader-of-the-Space-Pirates" Ridley. So it's just a mindless beast. Unless they really DID clone him with memories, in which case it can, for all intents and purposes, be considered the "same person", in the same way that comic book characters pull that crap to retcon a character 'dying' all the time.

In Smallville, Lex Luthor was killed and later a clone with memories was created, and all of his memories of Clark's powers were hand-waved away by a neurotoxin. Viola. A new Lex Luthor that we're supposed to just call THE Lex Luthor, because the original no longer exists, and this one has all the same memories. I know this is a small, limited example, but they pull similar stunts all the time in sci-fi. Isn't it true that in the Star Trek universe, beaming somebody is actually creating an identical duplicate and destroying the original? In that case, there are tons of every character.

My point is, when a character dies and a new one is created that is the exactly the same in every detail, it's always a crappy way of saying "hey, pretend he never died, this is THE ______ from now on". That is what happened here. Hell, it's pretty much what happens in EVERY Metroid game, since in most Metroid games his battle ends with him disintegrating. This just happens to be the only game in which they tried to explain his reincarnation in the plot (...poorly). This is probably Ridley 6 or something.

The case is different with Toon Link, because we are given a strict timeline, and told directly that this is a different person. A descendant of the previous Links, even. Going on the comic book analogy, it's like when Batman/Captain America/Spider-Man dies, and someone else takes up the mantle of the new one. Different person entirely. The Ridley in Other M may be physically different from the previous ones, but it still fills the roll of THE Ridley in the Metroid series, being identical in every way.


...And while I know my argument isn't completely sound, you said it yourself, my other argument about having 2 differently-sized Ridleys on the same screen at the same time totally holds up. That would be really weird.


where'd you hear that about the transporters in Star Trek? They just decompile the person, then put them back together. No duplicates involved at all.

I think he got it from a combination of Badger on Breaking Bad and advances in science since Star Trek. But anyway, Samus in 4 is based on Other M, so so would Ridley, so it's not like the Toon Link argument at all, since Conducter Linkis from a different game.
#30MateoRingheadPosted 9/26/2013 1:10:22 PM
Dsurions_Wrath posted...
where'd you hear that about the transporters in Star Trek? They just decompile the person, then put them back together. No duplicates involved at all.


I heard that there was an episode of classic Trek where the teleporter malfunctioned and didn't break down the Kirk that was to be teleported, resulting in two Kirks (one of them might've been evil or something). I haven't personally seen it, though. One of the side characters in a recent Breaking Bad episode actually talks about this in an episode too. :P

Maybe I'm mistaken. I'm not familiar with Star Trek enough, but they have matter replicators that assemble things from an atomic level, so transporting a person by recreating them on an atomic level and breaking down the original sounds consistent with such a world.

Oh! I thought of another Sci-fi example. Several times in Doctor Who there is a digitized person who is said to be the real thing. Once on the Titanic episode, where the girl dies and her "ghost" is saved by a bracelet (although they have insufficient power to recreate her), and again when they first meet River Song. River Dies, but her mind patterns are saved in her Sonic Screwdriver, and they put her inside a computer to "live" forever. The River in the computer is then considered THE River, even though she's a copy.