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If Waluigi is playable, will the bar be LOWERED?

#61SpunkySixPosted 11/9/2012 10:10:45 PM
Mottman posted...
dedekong posted...
Ok.. but Waluigi's role in those games are of the same value as a Koopa.. except Koopa's are at least in the canon games.


As a huge fan of Koopa Troopas, I wish I could believe this meant something good for the chances of a playable KT; but I know it doesn't.


Besides the fact that it's blatantly wrong. Other than Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Bowser, Waluigi is basically one character in a very small group that ever does anything important in multiple spinoffs. He's more important than most of the roster, even big names like Donkey Kong. He's one of the few characters in those games that ISN'T filler.
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#62MrSpacelySlatePosted 11/9/2012 11:13:54 PM
This bar you imagined became nonexistent since Smash 64, considering we had Mr. "Mario-in-green-paint" instead of a unique Luigi.
#63MuTeKiKenPosted 11/9/2012 11:34:28 PM
So first Sakurai has standards (BS) then once he puts filler characters he will have lowered standards (more BS) and there's something about using PS Smash as a positive example (complete and utter BS).

Sakurai's standards differ from character to character. This is a proven point. If a buddy asked him to put X in, he'll do it. If he sees moveset potential, he'll apply it. If he thinks X is popular, he'll put him in. If he thinks X is retro, WTF or "important to Nintendo" by whatever BS definitions everyone here has, he'll put him in. And if he wants more characters but doesn't have time, he'll use clones.

You can make up whatever reason he has to add someone, and you can make up reasons why he saw that certain characters are higher priority than others and so made cuts. But add Waluigi and suddenly something is wrong with Sakurai's standards? Where the **** have you been when the last 3 games were released?
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#64Grammar_manPosted 11/10/2012 11:10:41 AM
dedekong posted...
Ok.. but Waluigi's role in those games are of the same value as a Koopa..


Which explains why he usually gets included over the Koopas, and unlike them almost always in Team Leader role.

Really, he's more along the line of Daisy(Except having a far more unique design, while Daisy is literally a palette swap which has since been differentiated). Let's face it, the chances that Sakurai cares for her one very minor appearance in the "Canon" is microscopic. If she gets in as anything more than swap, it's due to the spin-offs.


dedekong posted...

except Koopa's are at least in the canon games.


http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Canonicity

Try going with "the main series", instead.



As for iconic characters/items of a franchise:

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/c/c4/NintendoMonopolyBoard.jpg
#65albertojz356Posted 11/10/2012 11:29:36 AM(edited)
I doubt the bar would be lowered if Waluigi was playable. Sakurai completely ignored popularity and importance for many characters already in smash bros like the retro characters. I know that you think that just because they're retro they're the only ones eligible to ignore these rules, and while that is partially true many other characters ignored these fan-made rules too.

Jigglypuff is possibly the earliest example, although it was very popular back then there were also many other popular pokemon like Eevee, Meowth, etc. Personally I think that Jigglypuff was considered because its model is similar to Kirby's.
Sheik is not important to the LoZ series, even if Sheik is Zelda she's still a one-time thing. Think of Wolf Link, what makes Sheik much more important than Wolf Link?
Roy's game was not finished prior to Melee so he had no importance or popularity to fall back on. Although he was in to advertise he still ignored these fan-made rules.
The rest of the Melee clones, although some of them are important and popular enough to be in Smash the only reason they got in was because he needed more clones.
Finally the 3rd parties broke this battle of Nintendo All-stars tradition. Especially Snake who is only there as a favor to one of his friends.

So I think any character can get in if Sakurai is interested enough, or if he feels he needs to use them.
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#66dedekong(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2012 1:04:11 PM
Grammar_man posted...
http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Canonicity

Try going with "the main series", instead.



As for iconic characters/items of a franchise:

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/c/c4/NintendoMonopolyBoard.jpg


A fan made mario wiki is not a reliable source to determine whether a canon exist or not. The Mario games, and developers are. Considering the games have established a timeline, character relationships, and other stable ideas in the main series mario games, it is clear a canon does exist.

And that Monopoly board is not made by the same people who determine anything major at Nintendo, or the Mario franchise. Although, I do find it hilarious that Waluigi has the cheapest, and least important spot on the board.
#67SpunkySixPosted 11/10/2012 1:23:55 PM
dedekong posted...
Grammar_man posted...
http://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Canonicity

Try going with "the main series", instead.



As for iconic characters/items of a franchise:

http://www.mariowiki.com/images/c/c4/NintendoMonopolyBoard.jpg


A fan made mario wiki is not a reliable source to determine whether a canon exist or not. The Mario games, and developers are. Considering the games have established a timeline, character relationships, and other stable ideas in the main series mario games, it is clear a canon does exist.

And that Monopoly board is not made by the same people who determine anything major at Nintendo, or the Mario franchise. Although, I do find it hilarious that Waluigi has the cheapest, and least important spot on the board.


No. The time line is constantly flopped around and vague, "canon" elements are retconned and changed every other game, and Nintendo, Miyamoto specifically, doesn't care about canon at all. He even said that the characters are not truly characters, but actors playing roles. Canon in Mario games is the foggiest thing ever.
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#68Black_ShadowGXPosted 11/10/2012 1:38:13 PM
The TC assumes there is a bar to be lowered when it comes to Smash bros. lol A game series where Sakurai throws in characters onto a roster just cause he feels like it.

Then again it's dedekong, can't expect much from him.
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#69dedekong(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2012 1:51:37 PM
SpunkySix posted...
No. The time line is constantly flopped around and vague, "canon" elements are retconned and changed every other game, and Nintendo, Miyamoto specifically, doesn't care about canon at all. He even said that the characters are not truly characters, but actors playing roles. Canon in Mario games is the foggiest thing ever.


Saying things are "retconned" and "changed" is a bit of an exaggeration. I also would like to see that Miyamoto quote, and proof of Retcon.

Black_ShadowGX posted...
The TC assumes there is a bar to be lowered when it comes to Smash bros. lol A game series where Sakurai throws in characters onto a roster just cause he feels like it.

Then again it's dedekong, can't expect much from him.


So because you have no grasp on the standards of how Sakurai has chosen certain characters, you assume there is no bar or standard? Ok.

...And Considering you're anticipating Injustice: Gods Among Us, I don't think you should be judging on what to expect from anyone.
#70LegendofLegaiaPosted 11/10/2012 1:58:26 PM
Black_ShadowGX posted...
Then again it's dedekong, can't expect much from him.


Dedekong DAMAGED his brain when he was a child.

Just kidding, don't get mad dedekong.
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