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Canonically, who would be the most powerful Nintendo character in Smash Bros.?

#121Spiega(Topic Creator)Posted 1/6/2013 10:32:53 PM
My issue with the Red (Pokemon Trainer) argument is that Red himself wouldn't be the one fighting, his Pokemon would. Therefore, shouldn't the vote go to his Pokemon instead of Red himself?

Red sends out Charizard. Charizard wins the battle. Red did nothing but bark orders, Charizard did all the fighting. Charizard is a Pokemon character, and that also makes him a Nintendo character. The vote should go to him I think.
#122chiycheesewolfPosted 1/6/2013 10:35:34 PM
Does no one pay attention to my Samus post?

The only characters that would be able to go toe-to-toe with her would be either Lucas or Ness. (Through powerscaling)

And why is everyone still ignoring the fact that Samus without the suit can obliterate nearly the entire cast?

And no sir these numbers are not made up. They are an estimation based on facts.

Samus was born on the planet K-2L, and for some crazy reason the devs and writers thought it would be cool to make ALL THE PLANETS in the Metroid universe in the Trillion Teraton range in mass.

Some smarter fellows took these masses and planet sizes and did the calcs and junk and found that Humans born on the planet K-2L were living in about 700 G's of gravity naturally. Evolution amiright?

Earth that we live on has 1 G of gravity. Lets say you weighed 150 LBs here, you would weigh half a ton on K-2L. You try walking there.
Now in Samus's case, She was taken to the planet Zebes at a young age which had roughly 863 G's of gravity (I say 850 for calc purposes). Samus had to be given Chozo DNA that strengthened her so she could just survive on Zebes.

Now, as she grew up there under the Chozo (Basically Alien Gods), She was able to jump up small cliffs atleast 6 times her height, Outrun plasma shots (About 70 MPH on Zebes from some guy doing pixel scaling), Move at 5-10 times the speed of sound (From the discription) with the Speed Boosters, and crush a robot with her bare fists that would merly stumble backwards when hit with her most potent weaponry (Thats hardcore). All this in 850 G's of gravity. If you were two trip and fall in 2+ G's of gravity, youll become either very hurt or dead. simple as that.

If you want info about her weapons and what they could do. try not ignoring my posts.
#123CrystalKing5426Posted 1/6/2013 10:41:09 PM
Just to debunk PT:

1: He can only have 6 Pokemon at a time, max.

2: Even the strongest lv.100 legendaries can still be taken down pretty easily in-game.

3: Any of the other contestants could just kill PT himself, leaving his party in disarray.


PS: as someone else pointed out, Samus is absurdly broken and would win this easily.
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Other M is the One More Day of Metroid
#124COlimar788Posted 1/6/2013 10:55:07 PM
CrystalKing5426 posted...
Just to debunk PT:

1: He can only have 6 Pokemon at a time, max.

2: Even the strongest lv.100 legendaries can still be taken down pretty easily in-game.

3: Any of the other contestants could just kill PT himself, leaving his party in disarray.


PS: as someone else pointed out, Samus is absurdly broken and would win this easily.


I agree that, upon further though, Samus does probably win, even outside of trying to apply science and G-related reasoning to the situation. XP

On Red, though, he would be pretty dang tough, even assuming he only has access to Pokemon he would logically be able to catch in FrLg. Pokemon are stupidly-tough little critters, considering the types of moves they throw at each other for sport. And it's not like Red couldn't easily have his Pokemon directly protect him from physical attacks, and that's assuming that humans in the Poke-verse aren't tougher than those in our universe, which seems to be the case considering some of the feats they've pulled off (Rocket getting hit by a Hyper Beam and barely being phased, and Alder leaping off an absurdly high cliff and sticking the landing, for instance).
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#125CrystalKing5426Posted 1/6/2013 11:00:44 PM
Scorpion122178 posted...
How is Samus hurting Ganondorf? How is she even hurting Psychics? Mewtwo can throw her missiles back at her, and Ness can absorb her energy attacks to regain health.


Ganondorf's ToP doesn't grant him 100% invulnerability to everything except evil's bane weapons, just a high damage threshold that Samus would easily break past. This is also only by canon, so Mewtwo doesn't have his BS anime powers. PSI Magnet doesn't in Earthbound like it does in SSB. It's basically EB's Drain Magic attack, not a shield to absorb any and all projectiles. As for the person who said Giygas, his only attack is a moderately damaging AoE attack and he's literally defeated by the power of love.
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Other M is the One More Day of Metroid
#126alpha-apePosted 1/6/2013 11:05:22 PM
Jiggs can just sing everyone to sleep, puff himself up and go on a rampage. Poor Samus doesn't stand a chance against him.
#127Bronze_StuffPosted 1/6/2013 11:08:27 PM
Nidhogg151 posted...
You all keep bringing up Red's canon team. That's his preferred battle team, NOT the only Pokemon he has. In fact, through canon it's assumed he could have access to any and all Pokemon, as one of his two purposes is to fill the Pokedex, which you do by catching as many Pokemon as you cant. You don't simply stop at 6. It's never explained why he chooses his team either. It could simply be because those are the Pokemon he likes the most/feels closest too. And that's probably the actual reason considering Pokemon.

Besides, I keep seeing a lot of people bring up what other characters could legitimately have access to in their lore/canon, but don't necessarily actually have it. So if you can use that argument, why can't we?


Because Red the trainer in the game is the one you play as. Preferred team or not, the only teams Red can have are from the regions we've seen him in. We KNOW what he has been to. Red's purpose is to collect the data on the pokedex yes, but that doesn't mean that he's actually caught all of them. We played the games that Red was in. We caught what he caught. He can't catch anything outside of those games. Trading =/= anything because it doesn't even make sense in the logic of the game itself. Sort of like the Time Machine in G/S/C. The only way you can make Red make any sense is saying what he could possibly have. Not what he could have. Otherwise, you run into things that happen like Link with all of the Triforce. Yes, Link could have it, but he doesn't. Yes, Red could have Arcerus, but he doesn't... And preferred or not, that is obviously Red's strongest team. If he prefers to use them, that means he's going to let them fight more, and thus they are more experienced. Like it or not, what we see from Red in the games IS his strongest team. You might think he is weak, but that is what he uses, and it doesn't matter if he was. He's still cool.

Because it shouldn't be done. That's the whole thing. You're only supposed to say what the character could realistically use. For instance, if Cloud Strife were in this, mentioning that he could use materia is fine. Saying that he could use Barret's Ungarmax or Cid's Highwind is not. It gets really stupid when you mention things that the character isn't going to naturally have. At that point, you aren't comparing characters, you are comparing the worlds.
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#128CrystalKing5426Posted 1/6/2013 11:21:43 PM(edited)
alpha-ape posted...
Jiggs can just sing everyone to sleep, puff himself up and go on a rampage. Poor Samus doesn't stand a chance against him.


Except that Sing misses half the time, Sleep in pokemon doesn't last that long, and any damage Jiggs would try to deal to Samus would be so minuscule it might as well be 0. Hell, a simple scan on Jiggs would reveal the mechanics of Sing, and Samus could just keep out of range. It wouldn't even make a difference, since even her weakest weapons would one-shot a lv.100 Jigglypuff without any trouble.
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Other M is the One More Day of Metroid
#129Nidhogg151Posted 1/6/2013 11:25:30 PM
CrystalKing5426 posted...
Just to debunk PT:

1: He can only have 6 Pokemon at a time, max.

2: Even the strongest lv.100 legendaries can still be taken down pretty easily in-game.

3: Any of the other contestants could just kill PT himself, leaving his party in disarray.


PS: as someone else pointed out, Samus is absurdly broken and would win this easily.


With this kind of logic, Samus can still die in a couple hits, since that's all it takes for her to die in the video games. I'm pretty sure that actual game mechanics don't apply. Otherwise, what level is Samus? Last I checked she doesn't level up in her games, therefore she's forever level 1, going up against a level 100 Pokemon. A level 1 going up against a level 100 is like a random 3rd grader going up against Odin. And the strongest level 100 Pokemon only go down easily against other level 100 Pokemon.

No, that kind of logic cannot apply in discussions like this or they just get even more dumb and pointless than they already are lol. All have to be leveled out in a more "realistic" environment backed by their lore/real life equivalents. With that said, yes PT only gets 6 Pokemon, but picking the right 6 could make or break this conversation. If chooses Dialga, he can simply stop time, not allowing enemies to attack, then use Palkia to open a rift in space, which could then send the enemies into a empty universe created by Arceus. Then he still has three Pokemon slots to spare. As for his vulnerability, he could use Pokemon to protect him, like Mewtwo to shield him with psychic power. And according to the anime, he can have all 6 Pokemon out to do this. Or if you want to keep it game only, then he could keep at least 3 out, thanks to triple battles.

PT wins just based on the sheer amount of options available to him. It really makes the whole thing unfair because we are talking about a game based on the ability to capture and control basically everything that causes the universe to function. And as for the PT and Pokemon counting as different characters, that only applies if a Pokemon is not caught. Once caught they obtain a certain kind of synergy that requires them both to perform properly. This is explained in the games. Captured Pokemon are to be thought of like weapons that happen to be living organisms that can think for themselves. Really, it would be like saying Samus' suit is it's own character, or Ike's sword is its own character.
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#130Nidhogg151Posted 1/6/2013 11:30:07 PM
Bronze_Stuff posted...
Nidhogg151 posted...
You all keep bringing up Red's canon team. That's his preferred battle team, NOT the only Pokemon he has. In fact, through canon it's assumed he could have access to any and all Pokemon, as one of his two purposes is to fill the Pokedex, which you do by catching as many Pokemon as you cant. You don't simply stop at 6. It's never explained why he chooses his team either. It could simply be because those are the Pokemon he likes the most/feels closest too. And that's probably the actual reason considering Pokemon.

Besides, I keep seeing a lot of people bring up what other characters could legitimately have access to in their lore/canon, but don't necessarily actually have it. So if you can use that argument, why can't we?


Because Red the trainer in the game is the one you play as. Preferred team or not, the only teams Red can have are from the regions we've seen him in. We KNOW what he has been to. Red's purpose is to collect the data on the pokedex yes, but that doesn't mean that he's actually caught all of them. We played the games that Red was in. We caught what he caught. He can't catch anything outside of those games. Trading =/= anything because it doesn't even make sense in the logic of the game itself. Sort of like the Time Machine in G/S/C. The only way you can make Red make any sense is saying what he could possibly have. Not what he could have. Otherwise, you run into things that happen like Link with all of the Triforce. Yes, Link could have it, but he doesn't. Yes, Red could have Arcerus, but he doesn't... And preferred or not, that is obviously Red's strongest team. If he prefers to use them, that means he's going to let them fight more, and thus they are more experienced. Like it or not, what we see from Red in the games IS his strongest team. You might think he is weak, but that is what he uses, and it doesn't matter if he was. He's still cool.

Because it shouldn't be done. That's the whole thing. You're only supposed to say what the character could realistically use. For instance, if Cloud Strife were in this, mentioning that he could use materia is fine. Saying that he could use Barret's Ungarmax or Cid's Highwind is not. It gets really stupid when you mention things that the character isn't going to naturally have. At that point, you aren't comparing characters, you are comparing the worlds.


Red exists in Unova, where all 649 Pokemon are. Therefore Red has reasonable access to all current Pokemon. You can thank B/W2's PWT for that one. No trading involved, just the usual travel and filling the Pokedex like he normally does.
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You can never be too rich, too good-looking, or too well armed.
Pokemon White 2: 4986 2948 4576