Putting my account on the line - Ryu From SF is in SSB4 or I'm Out

#81Davidk92Posted 2/2/2013 5:17:23 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
I'm not particularly interested in Ryu for this game but...

Ryu is not obligated to be a Mario clone. Mario doesn't parry, use focus attacks, use mule kicks, nor does he use axe kicks. Also, Ryu has more control over the speed of his projectiles than anyone currently playable. His body type is completely different as well.


I am VERY tempted to play the Captain Ganondorf card, but I won't.

Instead, I'll bring up Ness/Lucas and Fox/Wolf. Neither of these pairs were "obligated" to be a clone, and indeed it wouldn't have been TOO hard to come up with a unique moveset for Lucas and Wolf. But they made them clones anyway.

I suppose you could argue that was because their body types were similar unlike Mario/Ryu, but still. I joked about it in a (MUCH) earlier topic; Jump Punch/Shoryuken, Fireball/Hadoken, Mario Tornado/Hurricane Kick. Hell, if they thought they could get away with it they could include Cape/Parry.

Basically, if they could give Ryu a completely (I mean COMPLETELY) different moveset from Mario without sacrificing Ryu's basic playstyle, I'd be all for him being a Capcom rep. I just don't see why Sakurai would do that when he can just slap Mario's moveset on him and call it a day.
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"The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you can't do."
~Walter Bagehot
#82ViewtifulGenePosted 2/2/2013 5:23:11 PM
Davidk92 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
I'm not particularly interested in Ryu for this game but...

Ryu is not obligated to be a Mario clone. Mario doesn't parry, use focus attacks, use mule kicks, nor does he use axe kicks. Also, Ryu has more control over the speed of his projectiles than anyone currently playable. His body type is completely different as well.


I am VERY tempted to play the Captain Ganondorf card, but I won't.

Instead, I'll bring up Ness/Lucas and Fox/Wolf. Neither of these pairs were "obligated" to be a clone, and indeed it wouldn't have been TOO hard to come up with a unique moveset for Lucas and Wolf. But they made them clones anyway.

I suppose you could argue that was because their body types were similar unlike Mario/Ryu, but still. I joked about it in a (MUCH) earlier topic; Jump Punch/Shoryuken, Fireball/Hadoken, Mario Tornado/Hurricane Kick. Hell, if they thought they could get away with it they could include Cape/Parry.

Basically, if they could give Ryu a completely (I mean COMPLETELY) different moveset from Mario without sacrificing Ryu's basic playstyle, I'd be all for him being a Capcom rep. I just don't see why Sakurai would do that when he can just slap Mario's moveset on him and call it a day.


Wario could've easily been a Mario clone. Ike could've easily been a Marth clone. Jigglypuff could've easily been a Kirby clone. It's not like every character with shallow similarities to someone else is more likely to be a clone than a unique character. All we know is that in some instances a character was cloned when it wasn't necessary and in other cases a character who could've easily been a clone was made unique. We don't have any way of saying when one outcome is more likely than the other.
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"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong
#83Davidk92Posted 2/2/2013 5:26:08 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
Wario could've easily been a Mario clone. Ike could've easily been a Marth clone. Jigglypuff could've easily been a Kirby clone.


Jigglypuff had a moveset since the first game, so I never worried about it. I never cared for Fire Emblem, so I didn't care for Ike. As for Wario, I did support him since Melee, and I was genuinely worried he'd be a Mario clone. It was a VERY pleasant surprise for me when he wasn't.
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"The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you can't do."
~Walter Bagehot
#84ViewtifulGenePosted 2/2/2013 5:34:25 PM
Davidk92 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Wario could've easily been a Mario clone. Ike could've easily been a Marth clone. Jigglypuff could've easily been a Kirby clone.


Jigglypuff had a moveset since the first game, so I never worried about it. I never cared for Fire Emblem, so I didn't care for Ike. As for Wario, I did support him since Melee, and I was genuinely worried he'd be a Mario clone. It was a VERY pleasant surprise for me when he wasn't.


I don't see how your personal preference fits into a discussion of the likelihood of being cloned. Liking or disliking those characters doesn't change the fact that they had similarities to other characters that could've easily translated into clone movesets. I can say this without using it as a reason against a character because I made no comment about probability. What is possible is not necessarily probable, after all.
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"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong
#85Davidk92Posted 2/2/2013 5:37:28 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
Davidk92 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Wario could've easily been a Mario clone. Ike could've easily been a Marth clone. Jigglypuff could've easily been a Kirby clone.


Jigglypuff had a moveset since the first game, so I never worried about it. I never cared for Fire Emblem, so I didn't care for Ike. As for Wario, I did support him since Melee, and I was genuinely worried he'd be a Mario clone. It was a VERY pleasant surprise for me when he wasn't.


I don't see how your personal preference fits into a discussion of the likelihood of being cloned. Liking or disliking those characters doesn't change the fact that they had similarities to other characters that could've easily translated into clone movesets. I can say this without using it as a reason against a character because I made no comment about probability. What is possible is not necessarily probable, after all.


I'm sorry, it's late over here and I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Are you trying to say that, although it's possible Ryu won't be a clone, that it's not probable? Because that's pretty much what I've been saying.

Also, my personal feelings do fit into this discussion because, as I said, I would welcome Ryu if he had a unique moveset like Wario did. It's the fear he will be a clone that keeps me from supporting him, along with the overall blandness of his moveset.
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"The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you can't do."
~Walter Bagehot
#86ViewtifulGenePosted 2/2/2013 6:50:14 PM(edited)
Davidk92 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Davidk92 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Wario could've easily been a Mario clone. Ike could've easily been a Marth clone. Jigglypuff could've easily been a Kirby clone.


Jigglypuff had a moveset since the first game, so I never worried about it. I never cared for Fire Emblem, so I didn't care for Ike. As for Wario, I did support him since Melee, and I was genuinely worried he'd be a Mario clone. It was a VERY pleasant surprise for me when he wasn't.


I don't see how your personal preference fits into a discussion of the likelihood of being cloned. Liking or disliking those characters doesn't change the fact that they had similarities to other characters that could've easily translated into clone movesets. I can say this without using it as a reason against a character because I made no comment about probability. What is possible is not necessarily probable, after all.


I'm sorry, it's late over here and I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Are you trying to say that, although it's possible Ryu won't be a clone, that it's not probable? Because that's pretty much what I've been saying.

Also, my personal feelings do fit into this discussion because, as I said, I would welcome Ryu if he had a unique moveset like Wario did. It's the fear he will be a clone that keeps me from supporting him, along with the overall blandness of his moveset.


No. I'm saying we don't know either way. As in you can't say he's more likely to be a clone than not. We have no evidence that one outcome is more likely than the other. All we know is that both are possible.

Your wants have no relevance in a discussion of likelihood. IDGAF about who you want or don't want. I am sayhing it has not been proven that Ryu is more likely to be a clone than to be unique. We don't know the answer either way.
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"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong
#87SyntaxBananaZ(Topic Creator)Posted 2/2/2013 7:47:48 PM
I wouldn't say Wolf is much of a clone. But he is rather similar to both Falco and Fox. Same goes for Falco compared to Fox.

It's nice to see that Falco and Ganondorf had somewhat a different moveset that they weren't the clones they were in Melee.

But Lucas...I'd call him a clone. He pretty much is everything the same as Ness, just different properties and effects.

I guess there's Luigi, but I'm sure the majority of people say he's his own thing, kinda like in Melee but it's more different in Brawl.

I could see Ryu having a unique playstyle too. I wouldn't mind it if he was more of a combo-esque playstyle rather than smashes. Frankly, I wouldn't mind the next smash being more combo friendly. Nothing like Marvel Vs Capcom but more of a balanced N64 gameplay.
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Friendship is Magic
#88SSBR10Posted 2/2/2013 8:05:09 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
Your wants have no relevance in a discussion of likelihood. IDGAF about who you want or don't want. I am sayhing it has not been proven that Ryu is more likely to be a clone than to be unique. We don't know the answer either way.


Fireball, uppercut, and spinning attack? Those are his most iconic moves and they're all already done by Mario. That's why I say he's more likely to be a clone.
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#898-bitMegamanPosted 2/2/2013 8:09:36 PM
SSBR10 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Your wants have no relevance in a discussion of likelihood. IDGAF about who you want or don't want. I am sayhing it has not been proven that Ryu is more likely to be a clone than to be unique. We don't know the answer either way.


Fireball, uppercut, and spinning attack? Those are his most iconic moves and they're all already done by Mario. That's why I say he's more likely to be a clone.


That explains why Marth, Meta Knight, Ike and Link are all clones. Theh use swords and all use slashes.
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#90ViewtifulGenePosted 2/2/2013 8:09:48 PM
SSBR10 posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Your wants have no relevance in a discussion of likelihood. IDGAF about who you want or don't want. I am sayhing it has not been proven that Ryu is more likely to be a clone than to be unique. We don't know the answer either way.


Fireball, uppercut, and spinning attack? Those are his most iconic moves and they're all already done by Mario. That's why I say he's more likely to be a clone.


All can be implemented in ways that keep him significantly distinct from Mario. This does not prove he is more likely to be a clone than a unique character.
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"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong