I hope they get rid of the whole "Trophy" nonsense.

#51EJWPosted 2/16/2013 6:33:08 AM
AvatarOfBagan posted...
MegaWentEvil posted...
Not the anime, but that movie WAS dark.

And I'm not saying a story has to be dark and edgy to be good.


Yeah, and in the american release, they also excluded the most important part of the story where an infant Mewtwo psychically communicated with the other 4 clones in the room, including a spotted bulbasaur (bulbasaur two) a striped charmander (charmander two) a squirtle with marks on it's shell (squirtle two) and THE DAUGHTER OF OF LEAD CLONING SCIENTIST.

Of course, the other 4 clones slowly died, the process being too unrefined and the stress drove Mewtwo into a panic, and the only way to calm it down was to try to rub out his memory with drugs, which worked, though he remembered that life was precious... HIS life was precious.

And then he woke up a few years later and killed everyone on the island because they saw him as an asset and not a living being.


Mewtwo's Orgin. Look it up.
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#52Iggy_KoopaPosted 2/16/2013 5:48:00 PM
SpunkySix posted...
Again, you're assuming they'd do a poor job of it. I'd like to think that the writers at Nintendo aren't so clueless that figuring out how to work a crossover in to canon is too much for them.


Riddle me this Batman! What about the abilities characters lose and gain in this game series? Yoshi no longer can eat the generic enemies (Goomba, Koopa Troopa, etc), Kirby couldn't eat enemies to gain their abilities as well. I mean, sure you could give the lazy "a wizard did it" explanation...but still.
#53SpunkySixPosted 2/16/2013 6:08:49 PM(edited)
Iggy_Koopa posted...
SpunkySix posted...
Again, you're assuming they'd do a poor job of it. I'd like to think that the writers at Nintendo aren't so clueless that figuring out how to work a crossover in to canon is too much for them.


Riddle me this Batman! What about the abilities characters lose and gain in this game series? Yoshi no longer can eat the generic enemies (Goomba, Koopa Troopa, etc), Kirby couldn't eat enemies to gain their abilities as well. I mean, sure you could give the lazy "a wizard did it" explanation...but still.


I don't know, basic creativity maybe?

E. Gadd makes a computer sim program that lets the smashers fight for fun without anybody getting hurt and invites them all to a tournament by using various machines, (space ships, time machines, etc.) to get the invitations to the characters, who he finds with a "hero detector" of sorts. At this point, we see how every Nintendo "universe" is actually in one gigantic universe. Pokemon and Mario, for example, take place on separate planets that are stupidly far away, which is why they haven't contacted each other before then.

He brings the smashers to his Smashulation 3000 and explains that he's working out the bugs, but each hero should be able to have fun and get valuable practice in the simulation. He mentions that in order to make things fair, various attributes are automatically modified by the machine, like Sonic's speed and Pit's god killing powers.

After the heroes enter the machine, the villains force their way in and become part of the simulation as well. They prepare to fight the heroes themselves and the heroes prepare to fight back, but suddenly, the simulation glitches and the heroes and villains alike are flung in to various parts of the simulated universe.

E. Gadd contacts them and says that the problem must be a "minor bug" and that they shouldn't worry, but after a quick system check, he realizes it's something much worse... a supervirus! All of the villains deny putting it in the machine, and the heroes are forced in to an uneasy allience with them and each other based on who glitched where.

Now, the heroes must fight their way to the core of the Smashulation, which has been invaded by glitch/virus versions of enemies from their past, to save both the virtual world and the real one. The catch is that, because of the virus, anybody who dies in the Smashulation dies for real.

Where did the virus come from? Who has masterminded the whole thing? Why did Ness and Lucas show up? They didn't even appear on E. Gadd's hero radar!

ALSO: To all the users acting like their above this, look at the OP. This is being discussed because it's the point of the topic. Don't like it? Cool. Now butt out pls.
Find out in: an actual story mode that anybody cares about and isn't a waste beyond having a plain old Adventure Mode!
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Tissue to the extreme!
Hey, is that Jack Ryder up there?!?
#54FoxMakinWafflesPosted 2/16/2013 7:11:45 PM
This topic:

http://i.imgur.com/NlMxBJV.jpg
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#55MeanMotorScootePosted 2/16/2013 7:19:28 PM
I don't mind the trophy thing really.

Honestly, character continuities/time lines are heavily debated and confused about (especially Zelda, despite the official timeline being released) and by trying to make it canon to smash bros, it will continue to be needlessly complicated and even result in some plot holes that don't add up regarding characters canon abilities/personalities/characteristics.

True there's nothing bad with trying to make an actual story for this game, but that will be the price to pay in the end from many fans who will nitpick the crap out of it.

and even if we say the crossover itself with actual characters would be non-canon, it still wouldn't stop people from forcing it into the time lines/canon some how and continue to pick apart the plot/inconsistencies.
#56SpunkySixPosted 2/16/2013 7:43:02 PM(edited)
MeanMotorScoote posted...
I don't mind the trophy thing really.

Honestly, character continuities/time lines are heavily debated and confused about (especially Zelda, despite the official timeline being released) and by trying to make it canon to smash bros, it will continue to be needlessly complicated and even result in some plot holes that don't add up regarding characters canon abilities/personalities/characteristics.

True there's nothing bad with trying to make an actual story for this game, but that will be the price to pay in the end from many fans who will nitpick the crap out of it.

and even if we say the crossover itself with actual characters would be non-canon, it still wouldn't stop people from forcing it into the time lines/canon some how and continue to pick apart the plot/inconsistencies.


Again. It isn't that hard to make a consistent plot. If the writers can't do that, then what are they even being paid for? The solution to everything you just said is to actually do a good job.

And why do people act like consistency = complexity? NOTHING about this story would need to be confusing. In fact, making it to fit with canon would be a great way to make sure that it made sense. Heck, they could even clear up preexisting confusion with tinelines like Zelda's. Every play Sonic Generations? That game actually made Sonic's world make sense for once. Sure, it wasn't a crossover, but the concept of timeline fixing is the same.

Just look at how many people still don't actually understand WTF actually happened in the SSE.
---
Tissue to the extreme!
Hey, is that Jack Ryder up there?!?
#57Iggy_KoopaPosted 2/16/2013 8:08:05 PM
SpunkySix posted...

I don't know, basic creativity maybe?

E. Gadd makes a computer sim program that lets the smashers fight for fun without anybody getting hurt and invites them all to a tournament by using various machines, (space ships, time machines, etc.) to get the invitations to the characters, who he finds with a "hero detector" of sorts. At this point, we see how every Nintendo "universe" is actually in one gigantic universe. Pokemon and Mario, for example, take place on separate planets that are stupidly far away, which is why they haven't contacted each other before then.

He brings the smashers to his Smashulation 3000 and explains that he's working out the bugs, but each hero should be able to have fun and get valuable practice in the simulation. He mentions that in order to make things fair, various attributes are automatically modified by the machine, like Sonic's speed and Pit's god killing powers.

After the heroes enter the machine, the villains force their way in and become part of the simulation as well. They prepare to fight the heroes themselves and the heroes prepare to fight back, but suddenly, the simulation glitches and the heroes and villains alike are flung in to various parts of the simulated universe.

E. Gadd contacts them and says that the problem must be a "minor bug" and that they shouldn't worry, but after a quick system check, he realizes it's something much worse... a supervirus! All of the villains deny putting it in the machine, and the heroes are forced in to an uneasy allience with them and each other based on who glitched where.

Now, the heroes must fight their way to the core of the Smashulation, which has been invaded by glitch/virus versions of enemies from their past, to save both the virtual world and the real one. The catch is that, because of the virus, anybody who dies in the Smashulation dies for real.

Where did the virus come from? Who has masterminded the whole thing? Why did Ness and Lucas show up? They didn't even appear on E. Gadd's hero radar!

ALSO: To all the users acting like their above this, look at the OP. This is being discussed because it's the point of the topic. Don't like it? Cool. Now butt out pls.
Find out in: an actual story mode that anybody cares about and isn't a waste beyond having a plain old Adventure Mode!


That brings me to another point; fair representation. Let's be real, all of the series repped in Smash would not not be treated equally. Heck even now they aren't treated equally, with more popular series like Mario and Zelda, trumping series like Star Fox, Pikmin, etc. There were plenty of complaints about the Kirby characters being pretty much the show runners of SSE...and THAT was when they were trophies! Even your off the top of your head story favors the Mario series by using Professor Elvin Gadd instead of say, Beltino Toad; making the Mario series the catalyst in a way. Don't worry, I'm no stranger to favoring characters and series over another. If I were to want the game to be canon with everyone else's, it'd be about K. Rool trying to conquer all reality (since he's the one of the only major villains with the resources and the insanity to attempt it). However, it would pretty much make Smash Bros into a Donkey Kong game story wise, and that's not what Smash is.

Also with 3rd parties it becomes harder since they are not owned by Nintendo. Snake's addition was a personal favor, and Sonic was by fan demand. Let's be real, Snake smacking Olimar with a fan is not going to be canon in the Metal Gear Solid series anytime soon.

It's not necessarily about the trophies (because that is pretty petty no matter how you put it) it's trying to place this into everyone's canon. Yeah, there are some series with flexibility like that (Mario for example) but some series (like say, Zelda) it would be forcing it in no matter what.
#58MeanMotorScootePosted 2/16/2013 8:21:40 PM
SpunkySix posted...
MeanMotorScoote posted...
I don't mind the trophy thing really.

Honestly, character continuities/time lines are heavily debated and confused about (especially Zelda, despite the official timeline being released) and by trying to make it canon to smash bros, it will continue to be needlessly complicated and even result in some plot holes that don't add up regarding characters canon abilities/personalities/characteristics.

True there's nothing bad with trying to make an actual story for this game, but that will be the price to pay in the end from many fans who will nitpick the crap out of it.

and even if we say the crossover itself with actual characters would be non-canon, it still wouldn't stop people from forcing it into the time lines/canon some how and continue to pick apart the plot/inconsistencies.


Again. It isn't that hard to make a consistent plot. If the writers can't do that, then what are they even being paid for? The solution to everything you just said is to actually do a good job.

And why do people act like consistency = complexity? NOTHING about this story would need to be confusing. In fact, making it to fit with canon would be a great way to make sure that it made sense. Heck, they could even clear up preexisting confusion with tinelines like Zelda's. Every play Sonic Generations? That game actually made Sonic's world make sense for once. Sure, it wasn't a crossover, but the concept of timeline fixing is the same.

Just look at how many people still don't actually understand WTF actually happened in the SSE.


Problem is it doesn't matter how good you make it, in the end more hard core fans are going to find something that doesn't fit and pick it apart no matter how small the detail. Besides, I'm aware ANYTHING can be good if given to the right hands even if it's nowhere near perfect.

But in the end, there are still lots of things to factor. Such as which Zelda/Ganondorf/Link are being used? Which incarnation of Pokemon would they be using the Pokemon from? Anime, game, or manga? Even if it's not complicated, believe me, people who have waaaaaay too much time on their hands will make it complicated and fill it with tons of fan made theories. It happens in all fandoms.
#59SpunkySixPosted 2/16/2013 8:23:29 PM
So because there are road blocks, suddenly the problems are unsolvable? Nothing personal, but I really hate that line of thinking. So far, every single problem you've brought up is solvable with creativity.

I mentioned an extremely basic plot point, for example, and you told me that suddenly avoiding series favoritism would be too hard. That is not true. Add in scientists from other series working with E. Gadd, make other plot points balance out, problem solved. That's how the creative process works. You have a problem, you attempt to solve it, you look at your progress and then you refine your solution. Almost nothing works out perfectly on the first attempt, and that's true for literally anything.

Difficult =/= impossible =/= not worth it

As for third parties, all that would be needed is the main characters, maybe one or two side ones or villains and a stage with some music. For it to work with their canon, literally a single throw away line would be all that was needed in a future game. As simple as Sonic mentioning wanting to go solo after being on such a big team, or telling Tails how nice it is to be home.

No, Snake would not be canonically beating Olimar with a fan. First of all, he'd be working WITH him. Secondly, he'd maybe have a more serious team with him, and if he didn't, then remember... this takes place in a simulation. The scientists programmed in items from all over the universe. Maybe third parties come from a different one. Even if they don't, the point is that the Smashulation would explain why the SSB mechanics apply. I wouldn't expect Snake beating goombas with a fan to be a major plot point in the next MGS. That's not the point of this... besides the fact that small details like that could be worked around and not in cutscenes anyhow. The point is to justify SSB mechanics and all of the characters exploring each other's worlds. This could be tastefully done if the writers are any sort of worth their paycheck.

And really, you don't find something deliciously ironic about a crossover video game for video game heroes taking place inside of a video game? I think that would be kind of a clever justification... verging on fourth wall leaning even, without being out of place.
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Tissue to the extreme!
Hey, is that Jack Ryder up there?!?
#60SpunkySixPosted 2/16/2013 8:29:12 PM(edited)
MeanMotorScoote posted...
SpunkySix posted...
MeanMotorScoote posted...
I don't mind the trophy thing really.

Honestly, character continuities/time lines are heavily debated and confused about (especially Zelda, despite the official timeline being released) and by trying to make it canon to smash bros, it will continue to be needlessly complicated and even result in some plot holes that don't add up regarding characters canon abilities/personalities/characteristics.

True there's nothing bad with trying to make an actual story for this game, but that will be the price to pay in the end from many fans who will nitpick the crap out of it.

and even if we say the crossover itself with actual characters would be non-canon, it still wouldn't stop people from forcing it into the time lines/canon some how and continue to pick apart the plot/inconsistencies.


Again. It isn't that hard to make a consistent plot. If the writers can't do that, then what are they even being paid for? The solution to everything you just said is to actually do a good job.

And why do people act like consistency = complexity? NOTHING about this story would need to be confusing. In fact, making it to fit with canon would be a great way to make sure that it made sense. Heck, they could even clear up preexisting confusion with tinelines like Zelda's. Every play Sonic Generations? That game actually made Sonic's world make sense for once. Sure, it wasn't a crossover, but the concept of timeline fixing is the same.

Just look at how many people still don't actually understand WTF actually happened in the SSE.


Problem is it doesn't matter how good you make it, in the end more hard core fans are going to find something that doesn't fit and pick it apart no matter how small the detail. Besides, I'm aware ANYTHING can be good if given to the right hands even if it's nowhere near perfect.

But in the end, there are still lots of things to factor. Such as which Zelda/Ganondorf/Link are being used? Which incarnation of Pokemon would they be using the Pokemon from? Anime, game, or manga? Even if it's not complicated, believe me, people who have waaaaaay too much time on their hands will make it complicated and fill it with tons of fan made theories. It happens in all fandoms.


...so screw them. There will always be whiny babies that nitpick at great things regardless of how amazing they are. Nintendo has never cared, and they never will because if the story is quality and not full of plot holes, unlike the piss poor SSE, then MOST people will see and appreciate that. It's only a vocal minority that would piss and moan.

If Nintendo never did anything that whiners didn't like, then they'd be out of bussiness because none of their games would exist.
---
Tissue to the extreme!
Hey, is that Jack Ryder up there?!?