What people don't seem to get about new reps from modern franchises...

#21ViewtifulGenePosted 2/15/2013 1:05:23 PM
GreatJallopi posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
GreatJallopi posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Tell me what was being marketed when Pit, R.O.B., and Ice Climbers were added.

The fact that such characters were added proves that newness is not necessary for adding a character. The possibility of non-current characters has not been ruled out.


I admitted R.O.B. was a rare exception, as were Ice Climbers, but the latter was for nostalgia of an old dead franchise, not an ongoing one (which is what this topic was about).

And you can't be serious about Pit. Pit's new design was made for Uprising, and they put him in Brawl exclusively for the purpose of marketing that game. How did you not know this?


Brawl was released years before KIU was announced. Unless ypu're telling me Nintendo wanted to market a ga,e consumers didn't think existed.

The mere presence pf exceptions proves that the rule can be broken.

You're missing my point. Kid Icarus Uprising had admittedly begun development during Brawl's (albeit just in the concept stage but still). It was made by Sora Ltd., who also made Brawl. Can you really not put two and two together?

And you're missing the point with exceptions. The exceptions were for characters from long deceased but well known franchises. This topic was about irrelevant characters from ongoing franchises. Like, you're trying to prove me wrong but your logic just plain sucks.


That's quite a stretch. Tell me why Nintendo would market a game that didn't currently exist amd wouldn't exist until years later, without even giving consumers any indication that the game was coming until years later.

You have no proof that the exception cannot apply to already represented franchises, All you know is that it hasn't happened so far.

I'm not saying old characters are likely. I'm saying you have not proven them unlikely because we don't know either way. Learn the difference.
---
"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong
#22GreatJallopi(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 1:10:46 PM
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?
---
I am the cheese. I am the best character on the show. I am better than both the salami and the bologna combined.
#23GenoPosted 2/15/2013 1:11:11 PM
GreatJallopi posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
Tell me what was being marketed when Pit, R.O.B., and Ice Climbers were added.

The fact that such characters were added proves that newness is not necessary for adding a character. The possibility of non-current characters has not been ruled out.


I admitted R.O.B. was a rare exception, as were Ice Climbers, but the latter was for nostalgia of an old dead franchise, not an ongoing one (which is what this topic was about).


I just want to note here, the only reason why R.O.B. was even kept was because a bunch of American video game developers/industry insiders got their hands on him when they were demoing Brawl and loved him and how he played. There was really no other motivation to add him other than 'Hey, here's a character we might put in and might scrap, give him a spin and see how you like him.'.

So essentially, you can blame America for R.O.B.'s inclusion.
---
3DS: 2363 - 5923 - 1853
#24MottmanPosted 2/15/2013 1:12:00 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
That's quite a stretch. Tell me why Nintendo would market a game that didn't currently exist amd wouldn't exist until years later, without even giving consumers any indication that the game was coming until years later.


I think there's a grain of truth to both arguments regarding Pit. My view is that Pit's inclusion in SSBB was a "test" to see if the character and series still had enough fans to warrant greenlighting a new KI game. I don't think it was just happenstance that Pit was one of the first newcomers revealed, and the overall positive reception to him being included made Nintendo confident that a new Kid Icarus game would sell.

I think Pit would have been included in Brawl regardless of pre-release reception, and I don't think his inclusion was made to advertise a specific new game; but I am of the OPINION that he was partially included to see if a future new KI game would be welcomed.
---
"Champions don't whine, they win!" - Vangarre from Xenoblade Chronicles
"Soon we will see Pokemon XXX." - Kooky_von_Koopa
#25MottmanPosted 2/15/2013 1:14:32 PM(edited)
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?


They didn't update the look of the Ice Climbers for the then-modern GameCube system? News to me.

Not to mention the added level of detail given to Olimar's space suit compared to how it looked in the Pikmin games.
---
"Champions don't whine, they win!" - Vangarre from Xenoblade Chronicles
"Soon we will see Pokemon XXX." - Kooky_von_Koopa
#26GreatJallopi(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 1:15:19 PM
Mottman posted...
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?


They didn't update the look of the Ice Climbers for the then-modern GameCube system? News to me.


Yeah, Nana never actually existed, but how does Popo appear to be any more than a 3D version of his 8-bit counterpart?
---
I am the cheese. I am the best character on the show. I am better than both the salami and the bologna combined.
#27ViewtifulGenePosted 2/15/2013 1:15:21 PM
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?


Read Mottman's post regarding Pit. And it still makes no ****ing sense to market something before consumers even know what they're supposed to want while giving them entire years to forget about it.

But that's all beside the point. Whether you count Pit as an exception or not, exceptions exist and so the rule is not absolute.

And there is no proof that the relevance rule can only be broken for old franchises. Never happened so far =/= never can.
---
"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong
#28GreatJallopi(Topic Creator)Posted 2/15/2013 1:18:21 PM
ViewtifulGene posted...
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?


Read Mottman's post regarding Pit. And it still makes no ****ing sense to market something before consumers even know what they're supposed to want while giving them entire years to forget about it.

But that's all beside the point. Whether you count Pit as an exception or not, exceptions exist and so the rule is not absolute.

And there is no proof that the relevance rule can only be broken for old franchises. Never happened so far =/= never can.


Pit's redesign was made with a KI revival in mind. Mottman discussed that possibility.

And try to find the exceptions all you want, but when Smash 4 comes out and all the precious characters you wanted aren't there, you'll see what I meant.
---
I am the cheese. I am the best character on the show. I am better than both the salami and the bologna combined.
#29GohansephirothPosted 2/15/2013 1:18:42 PM
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

Ghirahim is already old and irrelevant? He was in the latest installment and will still be in the latest installment until we get another brand new zelda game which wont happen for a while (Besides WWHD which isnt new).

GreatJallopi posted...
In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?

They definitely created pits look just for brawl, ice climbers got a visual update and design, so pit made sense as well. And if you look at pit in brawl compared to his uprising art its changed quite a bit and he now has a style more his own now.
---
"We're gonna be fighting the biggest beast of all - the times"~Big Boss
#30ViewtifulGenePosted 2/15/2013 1:21:50 PM(edited)
GreatJallopi posted...
ViewtifulGene posted...
GreatJallopi posted...
Let me make this clear, guys. I'm not discounting characters from old dead franchises. I'm saying old, irrelevant characters from ongoing ones, like Ghiranim.

In terms of the Pit thing, you really mean to tell me that his total redesign is just something they decided to do for Brawl, when they didn't do that for similar retro characters?


Read Mottman's post regarding Pit. And it still makes no ****ing sense to market something before consumers even know what they're supposed to want while giving them entire years to forget about it.

But that's all beside the point. Whether you count Pit as an exception or not, exceptions exist and so the rule is not absolute.

And there is no proof that the relevance rule can only be broken for old franchises. Never happened so far =/= never can.


Pit's redesign was made with a KI revival in mind. Mottman discussed that possibility.

And try to find the exceptions all you want, but when Smash 4 comes out and all the precious characters you wanted aren't there, you'll see what I meant.


So it's only a possibility? That's as good as admitting it is not proven that Pit was added for marketing.

That doesn't mean it was proven when you said it at the time.
---
"Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
"Supez teh king" -dedekong